rpilot

I just corrected myself on the Sport Design/ Sport Techno.

I think an enthusiast board will have more enthusiasts so it is normal for a greater concentration of S and 4S owners here. My reasons were different, although if I lived at altitude in the mountains, I would probably get the 4S, feeling more secure going downhill. Besides at altitude, the effective HP is much lower than the stated one because of thinner air. There is a reason more cars have turbos in colorado than anywhere else.

Also while we are talking about journos , check out this video, with the base 991 and a 1965 911 in the alps.


There are good reasons, low end torque being one of them, to own the S, however if you think you might feel less than satisfied with the performance of the 3.4, check out what the base model can do on a track....



So, there is no wrong choice here....

I also agree with you about getting what you want and not going hog wild on options.

In my case, I justified the cost of options on a quality vs quantity basis. I intend to keep this a while, so I might as well treat myself. I know I will enjoy having the leather interior, and I have never really liked leather dashboards and such in cars before. Always thought that they were somewhat tacky and pretentious. See the one in the 991 and I promise you, you will be sold on it.
The 18 way seats are just that good too, although if you have a thinner body profile than me, you may not miss them as much as I would. In my case, the GT Silver was the true indulgence. There is a long personal story behind it that I do not care to go into, but I could never own a 911 and it not be GT Silver. And you already know my thoughts on the Burmester. It just adds up sometimes, but then again, this is a toy and I might as well make myself happy..

chuck911

The Shooter is right on about this. Especially the Sport Chrono part. The clock seems more a marketing thing, the real benefit is the mapping changes you can't see but definitely can feel every time your foot moves one millimeter on the throttle. Of course you're equally right about KISS and the 991 being a great car in and of itself. Forgot to say earlier but thanks for the extensive writeup. I've also been driving and reading and impressions like yours really help. Thanks!

rpilot

@Detroit Shooter & Chuck911… your advice is taken in the spirit it’s given, so thank you. I did think about a lot of the things shooter mentions, but in the end my conclusions are that the S is more car than I need.

I also have come to my personal conclusions that despite how Porsche Marketing markets these cars, standard performance equipment in each model is actually very appropriate to this car. To re-iterate my PASM experience differently for instance, I feel that the base car on 19 wheels, does not really need it. On the S, where the spring rates are much higher (stiffer) than the 3.4, it becomes important to provide a more compliant ride to the casual driver and a good side effect of that is active portion which provides instant compliance on rough surfaces.

As to me getting used to the 3.4 and wanting the 3.8, there is some truth to that; however there are some personal OCD characteristics at play here as well. If I go the HP/lightning fast Sport Chrono shift philosophy, I will never be satisfied with anything less than a turbo S with powerkit to go buy a gallon of milk . Also, in a 3.4 for instance, I will never complain about why the Normal setting is so cushy and sport so firm on the suspension. I will just drive it. Less variables work better for me in becoming one with the machine.

Besides sticking with the Base has a $1200/year advantage in insurance and gas costs alone. Not that I am hurting, I would never consider a Porsche if I wasn’t secure and comfortable financially, but it does beg to say that I buy my lunches at work about half the time or around 10 days a month. So that is lunch money for the year . I am value driven that way, I always have been. If I really wanted the turbo S, safe to say it is not out of reach. I just don’t need it or want it at this point.

To put it in more succinct, perhaps poetic & indulgent terms:

The 991 is a 5’5” girl to my 5’10”, with a beautiful body & a strong heart who I can dance with anywhere, anytime. The 991S is an athletic supermodel 6’ tall who knows more dance moves than I can possible lead her do to and it will always be a struggle dancing with her in the first place.

mtbscott

rpilot, I have stated in several threads how totally happy I am with my non-S with 19" wheels and no PASM (and manual 7 speed.) That Car and Driver Abroad video really helped me too. My car was a bit of an opportunity. I'm not very patient when it comes to ordering cars so when I found out that all of the local dealers were deep-discounting leftover 2012 991's, I was somewhat limited to what was on the ground. Manual was the most important thing to me over any other options and the only two with it were both non-S's. Had there been an S with 7MT I might have gone that path, but I do not regret my decision whatsoever.
Maybe generalizing here, but most Porsche drivers never really push their car's envelope at all. I did a few PCA trackdays and autocrosses in my previous 987.1 Cayman S and saw plenty of GT3 and Turbo owners putzing around the track.(not that there's anything wrong with that.) You seem to know yourself, so a nicely optioned base car sounds like the best value for you.

991Dreamer

rpilot-Thanks for the videos. As I really think about my motivations for a "light option build", I must admit that the cost component rears it's head not at time of purchase but rather down the road when the car is no longer under warranty. Besides the increase cost of tires (and replacement frequency?) with the S, I just can't help but cringe at repair costs when it comes to PASM, etc. I guess I'm of the philosophy of more systems mean more potential $$$ going out in the future as they need attention due to age and wear. While it seems Porsche has made great strides in reliabilty, all cars will need to go in to the shop at some point and I think we can all agree this car is not cheap to work on. And I really just can't stand the inevitable repair costs so trying to minimize them up front is a factor.

Also I'm just having trouble finding a lot of options that I really want. I know PSE with the C2 is a must as well as PDK. I go back and forth on leather and while I think the Dynamic Lighting System is probably a nice touch, I rarely drive at night so am I really getting that much use out of it?

I could easily afford to spend several thousand more in options that I currently have (or even buy the S) and that is what I find most valuable about this forum; getting others input for my consideration. So thank you all and please keep the comments coming. I'm still about 10 days out from putting my order in.

991Dreamer

BTW, loved your analogy relating the cars to different girls. Back in the '80's when I was dating Christie Brinkley for a short time, I was totally worn out, and I don't mean from dancing!

chuckbdc

rpilot,
Just think of it like this: everyone here is looking out for your welfare, concerned that you might feel bad arriving at 60 mph in ~4.6 rather than ~4.3 seconds, or worse, be stuck for long periods on the highway at 179 mph rather that 188.

rpilot

Thank you for the vote of confidence. I am kinda envious that you got the 7 speed manual. It's just that my current 535i is a stick and frankly in traffic everyday I am tired of shifting manually and it also keeps me from doing things we Americans do in cars, like drink coffee or talk on the phone very well. I deliberately avoided the temptation to test drive the manual, as I knew it would put me in another dilemma. As far as my brain is concerned, this car only comes with a PDK. I am sure, deprived me will adapt .

rpilot

Funny. Thanks for the thumbs up.

rpilot

I remember the very early version of these and I cannot remember if they did not think about this or if there was a glitch with that specific car... but a few years ago, a co-worker had pulled in to his home one evening and his son was waiting to borrow his car (it was a BMW) in the driveway. He got out, the son got in, 20 minutes later the kid pulls into his girlfriends driveway and as soon as he turns the car off, he realizes that he does not have the key in his pocket. Worse, right after he turns it off, the car locks him in. So, the kid did what he thought was correct and pulled the tab to unlock the door and get out. Of course at this point, the computer decided that someone was breaking and entering and the alarm went off. And of course, he did not have a key to mute the car alarm. So he called his dad, who had to borrow his wife's car to come get him. Also I think they thought of disconnecting the battery, but there was some problem with accessing the battery location or something. Besides the teenager was not too qualified to handle things and Dad wanted his car back in one piece. I am surprised that the girlfriend's father even let this boy on his property again after keeping the entire neighborhood on their last nerves for 30-40 odd minutes.

I think I am going to test mine under different conditions just to see what it does when I get the car.

simsgw

Tonight I came back to the hotel very tired. MikeInCA showed me some pretty woods -- about a hundred miles of them around Napa and Sonoma -- and with so many "caution 20" corners, you can imagine how long it took. Driving that slow is very exhausting.

Where was I? Oh yes. Came back to hotel, staggered out of car with hands full of canes and some paperwork and simply walked away. Got up to my room and discovered the keys were in my pocket. I send them back down with a fleet bellman, but I cringe to think of the noise in an underground garage when the valet tried to leave my car.

Gary

SSST

Good write up and very well thought out. My only observation is that if you are like me (and you may not be) power is adictive. The 3.4 may feel plenty fast coming out of a 5 series, but a year from now, it won't feel so fast.

It's not about 0 to 60 times or top end, but about usable power at any speed when you need it. I love the fact that I can be in a high gear at low RPM and not have to down shift to get power when I need it. Of course the PDK will handle that for you, but effortless power at any speed is a nice luxury.

rpilot

I am probably going to be stoned and pelted with rotten eggs for this, and exiled from the kingdom of Rennlords for life , but here goes...

I actually like "effortless torque". The whole problem with effortless torque in a Porsche is the racket the boxer engine makes in delivering the torque. Somehow my overly particular senses cant reconcile the idea of effortless with noise. I have loved the idea of owning a 911 for a very long time and it seems to me that provoking the engine (something I have done with Honda's in the past) is also a very fun (yet different from effortless torque) way to drive. The Porsche has a sense of timelessness, elegance and understatement to it and somehow revving the engine is just plain fun. I loved many Honda's including my 2003 civic si which has almost no power compared to a Porsche but never bonded with an Acura TL-S (i hated this car so much I got rid of it in two years, the least I have ever kept a car) or my BMW 535i both of which have a lot more torque. I loved the 03 Si and the way you rev it to extract torque so very much that I could not bear to part with it that I saved it for my Son as his first car which will be very soon. (Of course all new Hondas including the current Si's are heaps of **!$#&## from either a driving perspective or in the way they look or both, they are just reliable appliances). To rev the Porsche 3.4 engine is sheer joy. Unfortunately a more powerful version, somehow takes that away both in it's sonic signature and at speeds I can get away with on public roads.

There is another car which I had the pleasure to test drive briefly at an event recently. That car is a Tesla (The model S to be specific) . There is nothing any other car manufacturer has ever produced that comes close to the definition of "effortless torque", IMO. The 0-60 times are phenomenal for a sedan, the top level signature performance model matching the base 991, and this is for all practical purposes is their full first generation model. The roadster was based on a Lotus chassis. All the torque is available instantly and the car handles amazingly, maybe not as amazing as 991, but better than most. It would be foolish to call it an electric car and dismiss it, it would be the same as dismssing the 911 because it is a gasoline run car, the same as a toyota corolla. it is simply a better car. This car redefines a car for the 21st century, period. The purity of its concept gives it its own soul, if there is such a thing. Just like the 911 has its own.


I wanted to buy a Porsche 911 before they too become hybrids (I am not comfortable with the concept of two drivetrains, btw) or whatever in the future. I anticipate driving another daily alongside with the 991. At some point in the next few years as the technology begins to mature, I am going to a buy a Tesla. Effortless torque (Tesla) meet effortless fun (991) in my garage. I have no desire to compete on the track and it feels like settling for second best when looking to the 991 for torque. The 991 is just that to me.. "effortless fun", and what I look forward to getting from this car.

rodsky

Great write up and build. Only option I'd add with PDK is sport chrono. It's cool to have various modes to use from normal (smooth, Lexus like) sport and then sport plus if you end up changing your mind about the track. Also manual PDK shifts with sport plus are cool. I use that mode quite a bit. My guess, is you'll get a little bored with PDK and no SC down the road.

chuckbdc

Be careful what you wish for. I have a Audi A6 supercharged 3 liter V6 as a loaner while my "changeover valves" are being changed over (eurika, now I understand why they named them...).

It has a long stroke (and small pistons) and with forced induction makes the same horsepower as a good V6 3.0 sedan with an over square motor. But it makes far more torque- something like 325 foot pounds - as much as a 991CS - at relatively low RPM (2-4K). It is well insulated and is thus flat out surprisingly very quick without having to be reved. The suspension is quite good- and it has modes ranging from comfort to performance optimizing (that you can set the computer to select or do manually).

So it is quiet and stealthy (being styled like a shaved bar of soap) the highest performance appliance I have ever driven.