neanicu

FYI,Invoice is not the price the dealer pays for the car,it's a few thousands below that,they still make a profit if they sell at Invoice.
Unfortunately the salesman doesn't know the actual price the dealer paid for the car,not even a finance manager would know,only top level management knows that number.

Carrera GT

I think the dealers are not all cut from the same cloth, so it's worth identifying and sharing experiences with the gougers and unscrupulous dealers in order to guide folks towards the better experience at a credible dealership. It's not uncommon to see a Ford dealership with a pickup out front and some ludicrous mark up for a bit of suspension or different wheels, but when Porsche dealers stoop to the same absurd rip-offs, it's useful to cry foul.

As for invoice pricing, yes, there's cost of goods pricing for all kinds of stuff on the Web from home building products (I just bought tiles and clear cedar) to kitchen appliances where the consumer can see a competitive marketplace. That doesn't stop the uninformed from walking into a department store and thinking the "red tag 25% off!" sale is a bargain and feel motivated to make unplanned purchases. But the savvy consumer is the one with their smartphone taking pictures and surfing the Web and making an informed purchase. Consumer sites like consumerreports.org highlight the most expensive is not necessarily the best and does not necessarily cost more to make or deliver higher standards, etc.

I don't equate a discretionary purchase of consumer electronics around $500 with a car costing 200 times as much and expected to deliver a lot more than digital content.

If Porsche ever raises their standards to be compared to Apple, VW will rule the auto industry and companies like Ford will know their new master.

Porsche has a significant weakness and strategic exposure in its dealerships which was not resolved by forcing the franchise owners to build new facilities and put lipstick facades on old buildings. Until they revamp their business to focus on the customer experience (as Apple did in the last 15 years, as Toyota did by inventing Lexus over two decades ago, ultimately causing Mercedes Benz to completely reinvent their service and sales businesses) Porsche is swinging in the breeze and they abhor the Web for the information it delivers to their customers. Until Porsche "downs tools" and realizes the Web is not an animated brochure (just look at the piffle they created for launching their cars on the Web ... trivial videos and husky-voiced German narrators) compared to the level of engagement other industries have created through their Web presence. For example, have you ever received a really focused piece of marketing material from Porsche? Something that takes the information they already have about you and anticipates what you want? Or do they keep on sending Panamera and 918 Spyder tsotchkes? It only make me think "there goes another rain forrest" and does Porsche seriously think I'm impressed by the brand to get a 918 die-cast toy? When I ordered a quarter million dollar 911, did it really convince me to take delivery when they sent a piece of generic carbon fiber off-cut and chunk of tire rubber? Good grief.

For now, the most we can do is suffer along as VW/Porsche find their way and struggle with things like electric steering motors and invasive electronics that serve the purposes of everyone except the driver. We can minimize our sufferance by avoiding the ***-clown dealers, and paying the lowest price.

7SPEED991

Actually invoice IS the price dealers use to floorplan their inventory. I can't speak for Porsche but many other manufacturers. Yes, there is money that comes in from the manufacturer that is not on the invoice ie holdback, facility money, dealer cash, volume bonus ect. In general, saleman are not paid on these things except for dealer cash.

neanicu

Invoice might be the price they ' use ' ,but IT IS NOT the price they've paid for the car!
If they sell at Invoice,it is true that the salesman is not going to make any money,except whatever they get payed for moving another vehicle,it is usually a set number...and very low of course...
Now,I think everyone agrees that it is only fair and normal for the salesman to make money on each deal for all the time and work he's putting,but from there to comparing this business to Apple and other businesses and think that people who are trying to get a discount on the price are being unfair is a long way... Maybe ' stealership ' is a tough word,but dealers in most cases don't sell cars to break even and most certainly never lose money on a deal.
To summarize everything :
- sell at Invoice...still make profit(not the salesman)
- anything between Invoice and MSRP is extra profit and the salesman gets about 20% of that profit per deal.

Abby Normal

I guess it depends on what your definition of "a lot" is. Because it's really not that much per car and has to do with facility compliance and upgrades, not inventory. Porsche has changed the program for 2013 models also.

wanderingwheelz

Buying a car is not that hard. As one post already stated- work from the sticker price (MSRP), and go down from there- start lower than you know they'd accept, obviously... I let a dealer add on their documentation fee, even though I pay cash.. But that is all I allow to be added on to any of my deals.

A dealer will bully a potential buyer if anyone involved in the deal senses weakness.

Unless it's the last day of the month, I'd never buy a car the day I first receive the dealers "best price".

Keep in mind also the dealership will be making money off of your service and warranty visits for at least 4 years to come.

My deal was so good that the dealer refused to pay me the $200 referral fee when my parents bought their Porsche a couple of months after me!!! Hilarious.

mjsporsche

The dealership business is based on "the averages". There will be some customers who will pay the MSRP. Others who will lightly negotiate and get a small % off the MSRP and there are even fewer that come to the dealership ready to hunt bear.

Most successful dealerships know the game and they understand that "the averages" are the goal and selling units is very important.

For every person who is willing to pay top dollar, all I can say is Thank You. Your transaction is important for my deal.

I enjoy the hunt and the deal and my style is to be profesional, respectful and speak softly (not sure about the big stick). I have always managed a deal with my salesman feeling good with the oveall transaction. So each deal that a dealer accepts is a good deal for them (if not they would not take it).

billyii

mjsporsche wrote:

The dealership business is based on "the averages". There will be some customers who will pay the MSRP. Others who will lightly negotiate and get a small % off the MSRP and there are even fewer that come to the dealership ready to hunt bear.

Most successful dealerships know the game and they understand that "the averages" are the goal and selling units is very important.

For every person who is willing to pay top dollar, all I can say is Thank You. Your transaction is important for my deal.

I enjoy the hunt and the deal and my style is to be profesional, respectful and speak softly (not sure about the big stick). I have always managed a deal with my salesman feeling good with the oveall transaction. So each deal that a dealer accepts is a good deal for them (if not they would not take it).
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WELL SAID!