Motor Trend Comparison Test
06-20-2012, 11:15 PM
#16
tgcrun, I can only say that there is no problem other than one that you are creating. If you feel that the topic is no longer interesting, you are correct in signing off and let those who might like to continue, to do so. Why can't you simply ignore what you find redundant and uninteresting and move on to the next post? Did the fact that I made a post somehow prevent someone else from making a post, or was it somehow inconveniencing others? Why can't we all just be civil to each other and respect the fact that this is a discussion forum and not everyone shares the same viewpoint? Why do you think that you are qualified to represent most of the 991 owners and almost owners? Take a chill pill, and if this topic is not of interest to the members it will die quickly.
06-20-2012, 11:32 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
All I have to add is after driving the 991, I also went to the party for the new SL. I did a quick drive of the SL 550 and really liked it. I started thinking about buying one because it had become so much better than the previous model dynamically. I was almost happy that the 991 left me a little cold and sterile feeling. I was also very happy that I had a few 997's and am now free to buy something different. I would never have considered a MB SL before.
06-20-2012, 11:43 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
It would seem that the choice of cars against which the 991 was tested is evidence of just how far away from the lineage of the 997, and previous generations, that the 991 has moved. I cannot recall another comparison test of the 911 that put the Porsche in the company of such non-sports cars.
To some, the 991's wider range of capabilities means a less focused 911; to others, it is a better 911 because it is more versatile. Therein lies the debate.
06-21-2012, 12:18 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
All I have to add is after driving the 991, I also went to the party for the new SL. I did a quick drive of the SL 550 and really liked it. I started thinking about buying one because it had become so much better than the previous model dynamically. I was almost happy that the 991 left me a little cold and sterile feeling. I was also very happy that I had a few 997's and am now free to buy something different. I would never have considered a MB SL before.
What do these cars have in common?
Maybe the hardtop(more weight) system the SL550 is using...
Maybe the 2 seats layout(from what I know the 991 is considered a 4 seater even though there's no legroom)...
Oooh...sorry...I got it! It's the new 4.7 TWIN TURBO V8....
06-21-2012, 12:34 AM
#22
Race Director
It would seem that the choice of cars against which the 991 was tested is evidence of just how far away from the lineage of the 997, and previous generations, that the 991 has moved. I cannot recall another comparison test of the 911 that put the Porsche in the company of such non-sports cars.
Here's an excerpt from a comparison test from Road & Track, June 1969. Take a look at the cars that the pure and classic long hood 911 is being compared against. Well look at that, there's a Mercedes 280SL. More pointedly, with all of the talk about the 991 deviating from tradition as a luxury GT, look at the title page of the article and check out the first paragraph of the text. Ok, it's just R&T's opinion, but it certainly puts things in perspective and proves that the MT article isn't the first time that Porsche and Mercedes have been compared in the same breath. And there have been many other times in between.......
Last edited by Mike in CA; 06-21-2012 at 02:11 AM.
06-21-2012, 03:28 AM
#23
Thanks, Cyberay, for posting the Comparo. I've recently ordered a 991S Cab and I found the article deeply reassuring. There's so much comment (not usually disinterested) that the 991 is too soft and GT-like that a comparison with two highly respected GTs makes for the perfect retort.
It's clear from the article that the 991 summoned more emotion simply from its appearance than the other cars could excite overall. And that the 991's drive went on to deliver on the promises made by its stunning looks.
Next to the 991 the other cars came over as mere appliances (nice ones admittedly).
For me, the all-round, everyday nature of the world's best sports car is a major part of its appeal. And times are always a changin'. Move with them or be left behind.
It's clear from the article that the 991 summoned more emotion simply from its appearance than the other cars could excite overall. And that the 991's drive went on to deliver on the promises made by its stunning looks.
Next to the 991 the other cars came over as mere appliances (nice ones admittedly).
For me, the all-round, everyday nature of the world's best sports car is a major part of its appeal. And times are always a changin'. Move with them or be left behind.
Last edited by Betternotbigger; 06-21-2012 at 07:53 AM.
06-21-2012, 08:06 AM
#24
That 1969 Road & Track cover is just great. The cars look so fantastic. So much texture and detail. I think the modern equivalent would look like four chiseled bars of soap in comparison.
There was a time when describing a car as a "proper GT" was seen as a compliment. The 911 has always been a good GT car, just one that happens to stop and turn almost as well as the sports cars of the day.
There was a time when describing a car as a "proper GT" was seen as a compliment. The 911 has always been a good GT car, just one that happens to stop and turn almost as well as the sports cars of the day.
06-21-2012, 08:26 AM
#25
"The latest edition of the Swiss magazine "Auto" has a comparison between the new Porsche 911S and the Mercedes SL 500. The magazine states that the two cars are in direct market competition.
This type of a comparison would have been unthinkable earlier!"
Quoted from "Sign of the Times: 911S vs MB SL 500" in the 993 forum, from 2004.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-sl-500-a.html
This type of a comparison would have been unthinkable earlier!"
Quoted from "Sign of the Times: 911S vs MB SL 500" in the 993 forum, from 2004.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-sl-500-a.html
I think you have over-analyzed this. Motor Trend also did a comparison test between the 991 and the Corvette Grand Sport which the 991 won.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
Car and Driver compared the 991 to the Corvette Z06 and the Nissan GTR. The 991 won this one also.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...rrera-s-page-4
All the test that you refer to proves is that the 991 is good enough to play against sports cars, luxury coupes, and GT's and come out ahead regardless. If the complaint is that it's too versatile.......
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
Car and Driver compared the 991 to the Corvette Z06 and the Nissan GTR. The 991 won this one also.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...rrera-s-page-4
All the test that you refer to proves is that the 991 is good enough to play against sports cars, luxury coupes, and GT's and come out ahead regardless. If the complaint is that it's too versatile.......
06-21-2012, 10:04 AM
#26
I guess you guys just haven't been around as long as I have.
Here's an excerpt from a comparison test from Road & Track, June 1969. Take a look at the cars that the pure and classic long hood 911 is being compared against. Well look at that, there's a Mercedes 280SL. More pointedly, with all of the talk about the 991 deviating from tradition as a luxury GT, look at the title page of the article and check out the first paragraph of the text. Ok, it's just R&T's opinion, but it certainly puts things in perspective and proves that the MT article isn't the first time that Porsche and Mercedes have been compared in the same breath. And there have been many other times in between.......
Here's an excerpt from a comparison test from Road & Track, June 1969. Take a look at the cars that the pure and classic long hood 911 is being compared against. Well look at that, there's a Mercedes 280SL. More pointedly, with all of the talk about the 991 deviating from tradition as a luxury GT, look at the title page of the article and check out the first paragraph of the text. Ok, it's just R&T's opinion, but it certainly puts things in perspective and proves that the MT article isn't the first time that Porsche and Mercedes have been compared in the same breath. And there have been many other times in between.......
There's food for thought in that 60's GT review.
06-21-2012, 12:03 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
06-21-2012, 12:07 PM
#28
Instructor
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The 911 is also highly regarded enough that Jag (XE), Mercedes (SLC) all want to build direct competitors to the 911. Similar to the 3-series BMW clones by Lexus, Infiniti etc.
When the Porsche that will slot between the 991 and 918 is produced, everyone will probably try to copy that. Oh wait, P is building that to compete with the Ferrari 458, Lambo Gallardo etc. Oh my. Everyone's doing it...
When the Porsche that will slot between the 991 and 918 is produced, everyone will probably try to copy that. Oh wait, P is building that to compete with the Ferrari 458, Lambo Gallardo etc. Oh my. Everyone's doing it...
06-21-2012, 12:48 PM
#29
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Motor Trend has published a comparison and road test of the 991 against a BMW 650i and a Mercedes Benz SL550. They characterize the cars as sporty luxury cars and the 991 won, as well it should. I follow the conversations on Rennlist closely, but I don't usually have much to add, so I don't post often. But when I saw the Motor Trend article today I felt I had something worthwhile to say.
It would seem that the choice of cars against which the 991 was tested is evidence of just how far away from the lineage of the 997, and previous generations, that the 991 has moved. I cannot recall another comparison test of the 911 that put the Porsche in the company of such non-sports cars.
It would also seem that the world has changed and there are just not enough true sports car lovers out there in the numbers sufficient to warrant manufacture of a car in the tradition of past Porsche 911's. I don't understand why there aren't more people, who have the means to own a car like the 911, to demand with their wallets that the tradition continue. After all, there are no shortage of powerful, excellent handling, high tech, sport luxury cars with automatic transmissions to satisfy the high performance, comfort and convenient needs of most. But when it comes time to enjoy the rough and ready, seat of the pants high performance energy of a car like the 997, well, the ranks of a car such as that, has just been reduced by one more.
It seems so obvious that the 911 doesn't need to chase after the SL's and the 650i's to be a success, it can just go on being what it's always been and live forever. After all, most of us have other cars that meet the comfort, convenience, and powerful criteria. Some of those are even Porsche. But there has always been the 911 to retreat to when we wanted that more- connected-to-the road with overwhelming power feeling. - just man and machine. I hope someone has insight and will share it.
I'm not sure that upcoming GT versions are going to be the replacement that we are looking for to carry on the tradition. They may well continue even further the high tech, mechanized transmission, approach to performance.
Personally, my escape car is a 2012 Carrera GTS, 6 speed of course. I'll be 70 years old this year, and if you do the math, you'll see I'm a product of the greatest generation of gear heads that ever lived. The period beginning with the latter 1950's through the late 1960's left indelible marks about cars on the minds of people of my generation. It is sad that those marks are going to disappear as the generation disappears. I may one day own a 991 but I will never give up the 997. After all,THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE. Porsche has said that repeatedly, yet, now they seem to be embracing a more generic type of car for which there are other substitutes available.
Here's the link to the article.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...911_carrera_s/
It would seem that the choice of cars against which the 991 was tested is evidence of just how far away from the lineage of the 997, and previous generations, that the 991 has moved. I cannot recall another comparison test of the 911 that put the Porsche in the company of such non-sports cars.
It would also seem that the world has changed and there are just not enough true sports car lovers out there in the numbers sufficient to warrant manufacture of a car in the tradition of past Porsche 911's. I don't understand why there aren't more people, who have the means to own a car like the 911, to demand with their wallets that the tradition continue. After all, there are no shortage of powerful, excellent handling, high tech, sport luxury cars with automatic transmissions to satisfy the high performance, comfort and convenient needs of most. But when it comes time to enjoy the rough and ready, seat of the pants high performance energy of a car like the 997, well, the ranks of a car such as that, has just been reduced by one more.
It seems so obvious that the 911 doesn't need to chase after the SL's and the 650i's to be a success, it can just go on being what it's always been and live forever. After all, most of us have other cars that meet the comfort, convenience, and powerful criteria. Some of those are even Porsche. But there has always been the 911 to retreat to when we wanted that more- connected-to-the road with overwhelming power feeling. - just man and machine. I hope someone has insight and will share it.
I'm not sure that upcoming GT versions are going to be the replacement that we are looking for to carry on the tradition. They may well continue even further the high tech, mechanized transmission, approach to performance.
Personally, my escape car is a 2012 Carrera GTS, 6 speed of course. I'll be 70 years old this year, and if you do the math, you'll see I'm a product of the greatest generation of gear heads that ever lived. The period beginning with the latter 1950's through the late 1960's left indelible marks about cars on the minds of people of my generation. It is sad that those marks are going to disappear as the generation disappears. I may one day own a 991 but I will never give up the 997. After all,THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE. Porsche has said that repeatedly, yet, now they seem to be embracing a more generic type of car for which there are other substitutes available.
Here's the link to the article.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...911_carrera_s/
06-21-2012, 03:02 PM
#30
hmmm I have a 280 and constantly have a conumdrum as to which one Ill take out to starbux on weekends- the 280 often wins on classic style - if there a hairpin on the way it would be 991 all the way!