Originally Posted by Mike in CA

Now Tony, let's not get too upset about the criticism. Reading back over the posts, the "derision" was directed specifically at the comment "the car was designed for the lady's". If someone did a subjective but otherwise reasonable analysis of the 997's handling and threw in the line, "the car's pendulum dynamics were left in to appeal to the troglodyte crowd" I imagine you would have some difficulty taking the rest of the write up too seriously regardless of the experience and number of posts of the poster, no? I realize the statement was intended to get a rise, and it succeeded, but no one should be surprised that some people didn't take it well, especially given the heated nature of this topic.

The troglodyte reference is not my opinion, BTW, so no grief over that please. Just an example of a similarly provocative statement in the same vein as "for the lady's".....

Originally Posted by ccroger43

This is my first post on Rennlist. I am a senior citizen who turned 69 this month so go easy on me.

I also attended the Porsche Master’s Plus at Barber Motor Sports Park with MJones and want to comment on my experiences with the 991 Carrera S at this event.

I have loved Porsches since 1966 when my friend consistently beat me at autocrosses at Texas A&M’s Bryan Air Base. He drove a 356 SC. I drove a 65 Corvair Turbo Corsa. It took me many years before I was able to get my first Porsche 911 in 1996.

I have been fortunate enough to move through the 911 series models including all 911 GT3s. With each new 911, I was able to improve my lap times thanks to Porsche’s engineering work. I expected the 911 Carrera S to continue along this curve, but it didn’t. Here are my observations.

First, let’s talk about looks, which are a matter of personal preference not performance. I like the looks of the 991 a lot. I think it is an improvement over the 997 and makes that model look a bit dated when you see them side-by-side. I also like the classy, high quality new interior, and so will my wife.

Next, here is my skid pad impression. On the wet figure-8 skid pad, the 991 was a joy to drive and drift. I didn’t drive the 997 this outing for a real comparison but have enough 997 slick-surface time at Barber and Camp 4 Canada to judge the 991 to be superior in drifting.

Now, for the track comparison. At Barber, I drove a 997 Carrera S 6-speed, a Cayman R PDK, and a 991 Carrera S PDK. The 991 did not have the PDCC option. I know Barber very well so the track was not a factor in this evaluation. By the end of second day I had multiple sessions in the three cars. The cars were equipped with the Race-Keeper video and data recorder. My initial gut-level ranking without knowing the lap times of the three cars from first-to-last was:

(1) Cayman R PDK
(2) 997 Carrera S 6-speed
(3) 991 Carrera S PDK

When I looked at the Race-Keeper data on the third day, I learned that the lap time ranking was:

(1) 997 Carrera S 6-speed
(2) Cayman R PDK
(3) 991 Carrera S PDK

On the track, I never felt comfortable in the 991 for three reasons.

First, my left leg developed an immediate pain just above the knee after a few laps. I didn’t have this problem in the 997 Carrera S so I checked the door where my leg was pushed and noted that the Bose speaker in the 991 put a hard edge into my leg just above the knee. I looked at the Race-Keeper data and verified that I was driving above 1 G on some of the Barber turns that last forever. I learned that this speaker discomfort was a common occurrence and just put it out of my mind in my second session.

Second, I didn’t master the PDK. It frequently downshifted on me when I was applying power so I was distracted from my driving. I chalked this up to my lack of skill with the PDK but noticed that the instructor who drove me on a warm lap had the same issues, and he is a very good driver. Again, he was new to the 991 PDK mentioning that our lap was his fastest in the 991 so far.

Third, on the track, the 991 felt BIG to me even though it is lighter than the equivalent 997 model. The electric-assisted power steering felt fine to me despite my brain being warned as to its issues by car magazine reviews. I wish the car had had PDCC. I talked with other driver’s about their 991 sessions and found track impressions similar to mine from all that I surveyed, regardless of skill level.

So what does this all mean? I expect that when I put on a left leg pad and learn the PDK, that I will turn lap times that will beat the 997. I just expected to easily do so in my first outing because that is what my Porsche 911 history led me to expect. Missed expectations are disappointing.

Originally Posted by MJones

Interestingly the 997 stick put down a faster lap than the 991 PDK

Originally Posted by MJones

997 Carrera S 6 speed
...vs...
991 Carrera S PDK

Originally Posted by Bill_C4S

Indeed...rushman71 you might want to check the history before slinging arrows....

Originally Posted by Mike in CA

Great first post and write-up ccroger43. Thanks and welcome.

Originally Posted by alexb76

+1...

This concludes again that 991 is simply NOT that much faster than 997 as everyone expected due to Ring times! This was not the case when Porsche moved from 996 to 997, massive improvements all around!

Originally Posted by Dunkleblau S

I did the PSDS in March as well, driving both cars back to back. One thing that MJones did not mention was that the SPORT MODES were totally disabled through PIWIS at the course. Yes, you push the button on the dash and nothing happens. So, I don't think a fair comparison to the drive can be had on the track.