The 991S on track
#16
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Abby's review above might have some truths, and I'm looking forward to driving the 991, but the comments are a bit sycophantic and full of marketing hype.
Certainly the car is improved, especially in terms of decreased noise and increased luxury, but performance will be improved incrementally. It's not as if the 997s were under-performing. I mean, let's be serious--the 991's improved Nordschleiffe time is a whopping 3% better than the 997. Yes, it's better for sure, but that difference falls within the realm of driver error/skill.
Certainly the car is improved, especially in terms of decreased noise and increased luxury, but performance will be improved incrementally. It's not as if the 997s were under-performing. I mean, let's be serious--the 991's improved Nordschleiffe time is a whopping 3% better than the 997. Yes, it's better for sure, but that difference falls within the realm of driver error/skill.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
#17
Allow me...
And... is that good? A 911 should never behave like a mid-engine.
Are you guys frustrated sports cars drivers? After all most of you raved about a controlled stiff ride, firm shifts and direct steering not so long ago... Geez... we now have active/filtering steering to 'calm down the driving experience', skyhook suspension with PDCC for a true Lexus serene/carpet ride. I guess the sports car is dead, because their new buyers have gone soft.
And... is that good? A 911 should never behave like a mid-engine.
Are you guys frustrated sports cars drivers? After all most of you raved about a controlled stiff ride, firm shifts and direct steering not so long ago... Geez... we now have active/filtering steering to 'calm down the driving experience', skyhook suspension with PDCC for a true Lexus serene/carpet ride. I guess the sports car is dead, because their new buyers have gone soft.
Technology is what allows you to have the best of all worlds. Now we can have previous gen GT3 performance in a package that sacrifices nothing for daily driving. I call that a win win. If you want more hardcore performance, Porsche will surely be arriving with a myriad of models. Remember, for every GT3 owner there is a 356 bathtub owner that laughs at the GT3 owner's giant boat he calls a sports car. Hell, it's got "GT" right in the name!
Time marches on. Keep up or get left behind.
#18
Nordschleife Master
People are growing up and learning that what used to be a necessary trade off for good handling no longer is because of technology. Some people simply cannot accept this because they are stuck on outdated axioms that are no longer true. It's the natural reaction of humans to resist change. This is why we hear these exact same arguments every time a new 911 generation comes along.
Technology is what allows you to have the best of all worlds. Now we can have previous gen GT3 performance in a package that sacrifices nothing for daily driving. I call that a win win. If you want more hardcore performance, Porsche will surely be arriving with a myriad of models. Remember, for every GT3 owner there is a 356 bathtub owner that laughs at the GT3 owner's giant boat he calls a sports car. Hell, it's got "GT" right in the name!
Time marches on. Keep up or get left behind.
Technology is what allows you to have the best of all worlds. Now we can have previous gen GT3 performance in a package that sacrifices nothing for daily driving. I call that a win win. If you want more hardcore performance, Porsche will surely be arriving with a myriad of models. Remember, for every GT3 owner there is a 356 bathtub owner that laughs at the GT3 owner's giant boat he calls a sports car. Hell, it's got "GT" right in the name!
Time marches on. Keep up or get left behind.
That is a predictable, and if you allow me, a bit condescending response. If that were true offerings like the Atom or the Caterham would not exist. FYI, the competition PCNA is aiming at is the BMW 6-series and the Maserati Coupe, as these are the cars they bring to dealer intro gatherings... Enough said.
#19
Burning Brakes
PCCB's "seem to afford" greater initial retardation - read more abrupt - even if the "area under the curve"/total elapsed distance is equivalent.
That is one discernible point of contrast.
Insufficient me thinks to install them....but YMMV
#20
That is a predictable, and if you allow me, a bit condescending response. If that were true offerings like the Atom or the Caterham would not exist. FYI, the competition PCNA is aiming at is the BMW 6-series and the Maserati Coupe, as these are the cars they bring to dealer intro gatherings... Enough said.
In fact, that's the raison d'etre the Porsche brand was born! So your argument doesn't work because there is nothing new about where the current 911 falls in the marketplace. It's always been there because it created that market segment! To think that the 997 wasn't cross shopped with more GT oriented cars before just isn't true. The reality is the "purist" market is very small. Plenty a 997 are driven by manicured mistresses and trophy wives because they liked the way they look and nothing more and yet they didn't immediately sell them because they were too uncomfortable for daily use.
Don't get me wrong, if I won the lottery my first purchase would be a Mac F1. There are far better modern supercars from an objective standpoint, but from a subjective standpoint that's my dream car. I understand subjective passion. That's what you can't argue with. But I know better than to try and defend the decision from an objective standpoint. It's an argument that can't be won.
Enough said.
Last edited by Rushman71; 02-05-2012 at 03:41 PM.
#21
Rennlist Member
i just drove mine and its a great car.. I have had all the Porsches i could want . from Cups to tt to Gt2 and Rs's well never had a 928... but i can tell you this is a good car... comfortable fast lots of appointments...
so many people get hooked on these cars as race cars... they are just great sport cars! i heard so much BS from 996 to 997 im sure we will hear the same again... was it a 7:40 ring time? thats not a bad time for daily driver!
so many people get hooked on these cars as race cars... they are just great sport cars! i heard so much BS from 996 to 997 im sure we will hear the same again... was it a 7:40 ring time? thats not a bad time for daily driver!
#22
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2002
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My posts were to provide information. I'm not a writer, so perhaps using typical language I came off as marketing the 991.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
Reeves has an 991 S at the 48 hrs in Sebring. I was very impressed with the entire package; the admittedly improved auto tranny excepted !!
jack
#23
Nordschleife Master
...The reality is the "purist" market is very small. Plenty a 997 are driven by manicured mistresses and trophy wives...
But where we diverge is in the GT definition. True, 911s were GTs in '64. But a GT then is not what a 'GT' is today. Today's GTs are Astons, SL/SLS, Masers, and such. The 997 is not as bulky/busy/encumbered as those. The 991 is getting there.
#24
My posts were to provide information. I'm not a writer, so perhaps using typical language I came off as marketing the 991. In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement. The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
#25
I'm not offended and I know you mean well.
That is true and makes me smile.
But where we diverge is in the GT definition. True, 911s were GTs in '64. But a GT then is not what a 'GT' is today. Today's GTs are Astons, SL/SLS, Masers, and such. The 997 is not as bulky/busy/encumbered as those. The 991 is getting there.
That is true and makes me smile.
But where we diverge is in the GT definition. True, 911s were GTs in '64. But a GT then is not what a 'GT' is today. Today's GTs are Astons, SL/SLS, Masers, and such. The 997 is not as bulky/busy/encumbered as those. The 991 is getting there.
I had a fully prepped 2100lb MR2 Spyder with a 2ZZ engine transplant that I still miss to this day. On public roads it is still probably the most fun car I have ever driven. As they say, it's more fun to drive a slow car (relatively speaking because 0-60 was still about 5.2 seconds) fast than a fast car slow. But I couldn't imagine doing with it what I will be doing with the 991.
I'm looking forward to having this type of capability always at my disposal all the time. This car will be my daily driver which means 15K miles a year with a 6 week road trip planned once I first get the car. To me, that's amazing. I really hope the Burmester I'm dropping a pretty penny on is as good as the one in the Panamera. I have heard the B&O in the Audi and the Panamera Burmester makes that seem like a joke.
I'm also still trying to find out if PDCC equipped cars have the same spring rates and damper settings as cars without it or if there is different alignment settings. I was flat out blown away by how good the car rode over irregularities, better than my A6 even, yet didn't sacrifice anything in terms of handling. I'm just amazed at how far technology has come and what it makes possible.
#26
Pro
My posts were to provide information. I'm not a writer, so perhaps using typical language I came off as marketing the 991.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
#28
My posts were to provide information. I'm not a writer, so perhaps using typical language I came off as marketing the 991.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
In future launches I likely will not even post. Got excited and went against my better judgement.
The difference is the car when the same driver improves their lap time by 3%. The realm of driver skill is a variance.
#29
Interesting debate - for now I think I will keep bouncing around in my raw spasm GTS and wait for the dust to settle. How 'bout a 991 GTS?
Viva le centerlocks! Dem be lovely and not hard to change.
Have fun drivin,
UJ
Viva le centerlocks! Dem be lovely and not hard to change.
Have fun drivin,
UJ