About the 991, in your opinion...
08-18-2011, 09:22 PM
#16
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Some things that were in the new Excellence that concern me... Electric Emergency Brake, Panamera type interior, 7 speed manual or 7 speed PDK, longer wheel base and overall, etc.
Sounds like revolution instead of evolution.
Sounds like revolution instead of evolution.
08-18-2011, 09:27 PM
#17
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Big step: 997.2 to 991. It's a new chassis. From what I've read (non-Porsche resources), the wheelbase is longer and the body is longer. I'm not sure what the list of other changes are, but based on Porsche's modus operandi, the 991 will largely carry over 997.2's drivetrain under a new body and more creature comforts. I read somewhere that from the 996 to 997, every body panel is different except the roof. I bet Porsche starts a new amortization table for the tooling on the 991's roof panel.
Bigger step: 997.1 to 997.2. New engine designs were introduced for the 997 refresh. Why do I think new engines is a bigger change than all-new chassis? It's my judgment call, but Porsche has shown it can go decades with the same engine architecture, while upgrading the body periodically. From 1963 to 1997, the 911 had been using the same fundamental engine architecture. Porsche's next generation 911 powerplant lasted from 1997 to 2008. The 911 is on its 3rd engine concept, but on its umpteenth front bumper tweak.
Biggest step: 993 to 996. This was a clean sheet drivetrain and body redesign. I imagine the only limitations on the designers were that the new 911 have a H-6 in the back and look like a 911. I think I read somewhere that the 993 and all models before it share the same windshield and doors. Leaving that behind is betting the farm.
Bigger step: 997.1 to 997.2. New engine designs were introduced for the 997 refresh. Why do I think new engines is a bigger change than all-new chassis? It's my judgment call, but Porsche has shown it can go decades with the same engine architecture, while upgrading the body periodically. From 1963 to 1997, the 911 had been using the same fundamental engine architecture. Porsche's next generation 911 powerplant lasted from 1997 to 2008. The 911 is on its 3rd engine concept, but on its umpteenth front bumper tweak.
Biggest step: 993 to 996. This was a clean sheet drivetrain and body redesign. I imagine the only limitations on the designers were that the new 911 have a H-6 in the back and look like a 911. I think I read somewhere that the 993 and all models before it share the same windshield and doors. Leaving that behind is betting the farm.
993>996
997>991 maybe...I need to see it in person.
08-18-2011, 10:24 PM
#18
Most people will not notice the difference until they see the two vehicles, 997.2 and 991, side by side. However, many will love the newer carrera because it is new and they wont care much about the previous cars. The interior is a bit too luxurious for my taste as I liked the console, instrument cluster, doors and seats currently in the 997. Others will welcome the new restyled interior while thinking it still looks the same to them but just fresher.
Nonetheless, I cant stop looking at it as the 991 looks great IMHO.
Nonetheless, I cant stop looking at it as the 991 looks great IMHO.
Last edited by BoxsterG; 08-18-2011 at 10:43 PM.
08-18-2011, 10:58 PM
#19
For me, it's all about what I call the "lust" factor. In general, any 911 can inspire the "lust" and like many, the 911 has been a childhood dream for me. By the time I was in a position to buy one, it was the late '80s/early '90s. I recall the 964 introduction, the "lust" factor wasn't there. I wanted my 911 with a whale tail, the standard 964 did away with that. Then the 993, big time "lust", came really close to buying one, still wish I had. Then the 996, zero "lust". Then 997.1, big time "lust" again and finally I bought one. Then 997.2, not different enough to buy one for me. Now 991, I like it quite a bit, but not feeling the "lust" factor just yet.
This one pic does get my "lust" meter going, but the rest haven't.
OTOH, pics of the classic 997.1 still make me go gaga for it.
This one pic does get my "lust" meter going, but the rest haven't.
OTOH, pics of the classic 997.1 still make me go gaga for it.
08-19-2011, 12:10 AM
#21
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Hello,
I have been a Porschephile all my life even before I was able to buy the car. If you look back over the long history of the 911 you will notice lots of things. One thing sticks out the most. The size of the car has grown over the decades. So those that say the 991 is going in the wrong direction well please reexamine your 911. Unless it is the car released in the 60s your 911 is bigger than the first 911 and it is different too.
Now having said that my first 911 experience was in a 964 chassis it was completely different than todays 911s. I remember the tail issue in corners when you hesitated and thought about lifting of the accelerator. It was a terrific handling car for it's time. It moved around a lot on bumpy roads and it was twitchy compared to todays 911s. As my memory serves me it was fun and thrilling to drive and it amazed me. I was starting my journey of appreciating sports cars which I am still building on today.
My next 911 was a 993 and from the moment you drove it down the street it was so different from a 964 chassis 911. It was inspiring and I felt able to push harder and it was more manageable than the 964. It was considered as revolutionary. In the 993 I owned a coupe and then I got a C4S coupe and finally a 993 twin turbo. The turbo I loved and drove it as my daily driver. It was exceptional and I have many found memories driving it.
The 996 was a complete change. Water cooled no longer air cooled. Bigger 911. Different design. From me it was just too bland. Not curvy enough. Performance it was better and nicer inside. The improvements made it nicer to drive. More livable in daily life. A car your girl friend would ride in more than a few times.
When he 997 was announced it was an instant winner for me. It combined the improvements of the 996 and built upon them and it was back to a better curvy 911. It was the 911 that brought me back to Porsche. It has only been improved on from the first version to the current 997.
The 991 is yet again a change. It is bigger. It has a new interior. Outside it is similar to the 997 which makes a lot of people who don't like big changes happy. The size is going to bother some that feel the 911 is going to end up being a GT car like the 928 or something. The 911 will always be a 911. It is going to change but it is still the most successful and loved design of all time. From me it is a constant car that is adapting and changing. I love the 911 and I have enjoyed every moment on the journey. I will buy a 991 and I believe it will make me smile like previous 911s and I will look forward to making more memories in my next 911.
Cheers,
I have been a Porschephile all my life even before I was able to buy the car. If you look back over the long history of the 911 you will notice lots of things. One thing sticks out the most. The size of the car has grown over the decades. So those that say the 991 is going in the wrong direction well please reexamine your 911. Unless it is the car released in the 60s your 911 is bigger than the first 911 and it is different too.
Now having said that my first 911 experience was in a 964 chassis it was completely different than todays 911s. I remember the tail issue in corners when you hesitated and thought about lifting of the accelerator. It was a terrific handling car for it's time. It moved around a lot on bumpy roads and it was twitchy compared to todays 911s. As my memory serves me it was fun and thrilling to drive and it amazed me. I was starting my journey of appreciating sports cars which I am still building on today.
My next 911 was a 993 and from the moment you drove it down the street it was so different from a 964 chassis 911. It was inspiring and I felt able to push harder and it was more manageable than the 964. It was considered as revolutionary. In the 993 I owned a coupe and then I got a C4S coupe and finally a 993 twin turbo. The turbo I loved and drove it as my daily driver. It was exceptional and I have many found memories driving it.
The 996 was a complete change. Water cooled no longer air cooled. Bigger 911. Different design. From me it was just too bland. Not curvy enough. Performance it was better and nicer inside. The improvements made it nicer to drive. More livable in daily life. A car your girl friend would ride in more than a few times.
When he 997 was announced it was an instant winner for me. It combined the improvements of the 996 and built upon them and it was back to a better curvy 911. It was the 911 that brought me back to Porsche. It has only been improved on from the first version to the current 997.
The 991 is yet again a change. It is bigger. It has a new interior. Outside it is similar to the 997 which makes a lot of people who don't like big changes happy. The size is going to bother some that feel the 911 is going to end up being a GT car like the 928 or something. The 911 will always be a 911. It is going to change but it is still the most successful and loved design of all time. From me it is a constant car that is adapting and changing. I love the 911 and I have enjoyed every moment on the journey. I will buy a 991 and I believe it will make me smile like previous 911s and I will look forward to making more memories in my next 911.
Cheers,
08-19-2011, 12:53 AM
#22
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08-19-2011, 03:20 PM
#24
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I am sure I will learn to lust for it, but the words of Chris Harris ring in my ears regarding the 911. To paraphrase, "the 911 needs to become more focussed. In various trims/configurations, it competes with $300k mid-engine cars like the McLaren and 458, and in others with 3 series BMW's. That is a wide chasm, too wide. Compromises must be made to be competitive against each category."
The 987's seem to have the ingrediants to be much more targetted in their category, but are designed within parameters to hold them back (engines, rear suspension etc) so that the overly wide Carrera line is not sullied.
I do not envy product planners who have to be all things to all people.
The 987's seem to have the ingrediants to be much more targetted in their category, but are designed within parameters to hold them back (engines, rear suspension etc) so that the overly wide Carrera line is not sullied.
I do not envy product planners who have to be all things to all people.
08-19-2011, 05:08 PM
#25
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But they are doing a pretty good job of it. One thing that Porsche has learned is that it needs to be diversified in order to survive, that brush with near death in the early 90s is what drives Porsche corporate culture today.
08-19-2011, 10:28 PM
#26
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Appearance wise...
If they put the Panamera interior (elevated armrest to center console) they'll completely leave behind the classic-esque 911 interior with the 997. Also I think only the 997.1 is closer to the 993-like classic front end, because the 997.2 is significantly altered by those excessively bright xenon or halogen or whatever horizontal bar lights that illuminate so brightly under the headlights (the classic 911 has the round head lights, there was no need to underline them with screaming bright lines). We all know that's the easy giveaway when you're not sure whether the 997 in your rearview mirror is a 997.2, because you can see those underlining lights for 4-5 miles in your rearview mirror, during the day.
Also if the 991 is much larger in dimensions, then again the 997's will be last of the classic. Go look at modern Ferraris vs. the 355, 328, etc. It's like comparing a Cadillac to one of those kid toy cars that kids have with pedals inside - huge vs. sporty small. Even the 997 is big compared to the 911's from the 70's and 80's, but now Porsche seems to be going over the top with the 991 spy pics. Big, big, big.
If they put the Panamera interior (elevated armrest to center console) they'll completely leave behind the classic-esque 911 interior with the 997. Also I think only the 997.1 is closer to the 993-like classic front end, because the 997.2 is significantly altered by those excessively bright xenon or halogen or whatever horizontal bar lights that illuminate so brightly under the headlights (the classic 911 has the round head lights, there was no need to underline them with screaming bright lines). We all know that's the easy giveaway when you're not sure whether the 997 in your rearview mirror is a 997.2, because you can see those underlining lights for 4-5 miles in your rearview mirror, during the day.
Also if the 991 is much larger in dimensions, then again the 997's will be last of the classic. Go look at modern Ferraris vs. the 355, 328, etc. It's like comparing a Cadillac to one of those kid toy cars that kids have with pedals inside - huge vs. sporty small. Even the 997 is big compared to the 911's from the 70's and 80's, but now Porsche seems to be going over the top with the 991 spy pics. Big, big, big.
08-20-2011, 12:03 AM
#28
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The lines, interior and increased size are evocative of the Panamera. I wonder if that's on purpose - i.e., to bootstrap another model. If so, that is the first time the 911 shape and size are evolving towards something specific, rather than into the next "organic" 911 iteration. That would be concerning.
08-20-2011, 01:54 AM
#29
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I am looking for your opinion, especially from those of you who have been Porschefiles for some time. In your opinion, and solely based on the spy photos, do you think the new 991 represents a larger step, similar step, or lesser step than previous model upgrades? I’m more interested in later models which I am familiar with: say, 993 to 996, 996 to 997, and now 997 to 991.
I am confused. I look at the photos, and granted they are professional and taken from the best angles, maybe even photoshopped, but I see little difference to my 997. Sometimes, when I compare my 997 to the 996, I see even smaller differences making me think the new 991 is “leap” forward vs current.
Another, but closely related, question is: given that the 997 is almost as pretty as the 993 (almost, I said almost), but that the 993’s life extension was greatly helped by the less attractive 996, do you think the 997 will fall in good company with the 993 or will the 991 makes us forget 997 even existed?
Thanks.
I am confused. I look at the photos, and granted they are professional and taken from the best angles, maybe even photoshopped, but I see little difference to my 997. Sometimes, when I compare my 997 to the 996, I see even smaller differences making me think the new 991 is “leap” forward vs current.
Another, but closely related, question is: given that the 997 is almost as pretty as the 993 (almost, I said almost), but that the 993’s life extension was greatly helped by the less attractive 996, do you think the 997 will fall in good company with the 993 or will the 991 makes us forget 997 even existed?
Thanks.
