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Been on RL for a while now. Have seen many posts alerting others about possible scams, rip-offs, bad vendors, dealerships, soddy work. Posters give as little or as much information as they feel comfortable with. Gotta admit that I haven't seen a poster trying to make people aware of a possible scammer, poor vendor, or bad work being treated like this.
Anyone reading has to remember Sam and various shops are paid sponsors on this forum. Essentially paying to advertise to gain new business, and mods work for the forum. When a mod claims they are neutral that’s like claiming North Korea is a democracy.
Sam was in business LONG before ever being a sponsor here. I am no mod or anything but get VERY tired of COWARDS going on any social media spewing hate against a company with ZERO facts and hiding behind some “reason” why they can’t share the facts. Either share the facts or STFU and handle your business as you see appropriate in person.
Anyone reading has to remember Sam and various shops are paid sponsors on this forum. Essentially paying to advertise to gain new business, and mods work for the forum. When a mod claims they are neutral that’s like claiming North Korea is a democracy.
Site sponsors pay Internet Brands. I volunteer here, along with the rest of the community team. My compensation is, ideally, a better community.
Sponsors are not a protected class at Rennlist, and haven't been in the couple years I've been on the team here. I'd probably leave the forum if that were the case, if I'm being honest. It's quite the opposite actually -- they are held to a higher standard than everyone else, with additional posting restrictions imposed on them, and I believe just the one perk of not being required to attach a price to a marketplace post.
Case in point, I will not close, remove, or otherwise squelch this thread or any others like it unless they violate a core Rennlist rule or IB policy.
Sam was in business LONG before ever being a sponsor here. I am no mod or anything but get VERY tired of COWARDS going on any social media spewing hate against a company with ZERO facts and hiding behind some “reason” why they can’t share the facts. Either share the facts or STFU and handle your business as you see appropriate in person.
A handful of negative reviews is not going to close a business, especially if the business is good. All businesses get negative reviews because you can't please everybody. People can tell if negative reviews are real or BS by reading between the lines. And nobody bases their decision a one review. When I look at reviews I look at the negative ones first then the positives. I went to a detailer who had 100% positive reviews. He did horrible work.
First NO ONE ever has said smoking is good for you even 100 yrs ago.
Second if you are filing a lawsuit then may even bother posting. Unless you are going to give absolute specifics then go somewhere else. The new world allows people to just say whatever they want, spew BS and then never be held accountable.
Either give specifics or go enjoy your lawsuit and let the outcome be what it is. Bashing companies publicly with zero context carries ZERO credibility these days. Way too easy.
As specific as I will go on here is once again if you read:
Hand twistable loose control arms and pinch bolts. Would you like me to DM anyone a video of this I'm happy too ? Just message me!
Car with water as coolant heading to an area that freezes nightly after spending 50k+ and 1.5 years of energy with pseudo experts "making it right". Only for them to deny it. Then admit it when confronted with an email in which they state they did the coolant system, which you would have to on this scope of work!
This is 2 out of at least 15 issues but they are major and I will state them cause there is no finger pointing there way out of them they are facts.
As I've said before if you care to read. If it was just fraud and negligence I would chalk it up to a loss. Reckless endangerment is criminal. These cars are dangerous at best they should not be derelict. I have a family, many people on here have a family. My family depends on me to survive I was told a vehicle was ready to go in a state that could cause LIFE THREATENING INJURIES or worse.
You really think waiting years for the US legal system to take its course merits not taking every effort to prevent harm to a potential future customer or the loss of a father or mother or whomever maybe in one of these vehicles? If you do that's very sad and counter intuitive to what a good moral community represents. Looking out for one another is what forums and free flow of information represents at its highest capacity. The ability to learn from the experiences of others both what works, and what doesn't.
In 2018 the local dealership had a 911 turbo modified by Sam / by Design. It was in amazing shape, and the head tech was impressed by how well put together it was. Idled like stock and ran like stock except for a HUGE power bump.
The car scared me with the power (and I was wanting a RWD car deep down inside). I passed on it, but part of me wishes I bought it.
I have no dealings with Sam, but saw / drove / examined a finished product and it was impressive.
I am equally impressed that people would allow a car to take years to finish. Hope this gets resolved.
There are a lot of them for sale that may tell its own story. The average person would have thought this car was amazing luckily I trusted my intuition based on his behavior and prior knowledge of performance cars and had it looked at quickly.
I don't doubt that there are some bolt on kits and Cobb tunes that are ok. However that was nowhere close to this scope of work.
I was told he had it covered and was listed 1000 reasons he was the guy. None of it came to fruition except for of course my payment.
I wanted to fly out to pick up the car and drive it with him and or one of the guys working on it. The excuse he made, (red flag) which I now don't even believe for why he couldn't allow me to inspect the car in person with him, take delivery, and test drive with him is disgusting. I won't mention it its so shameful.
Last edited by Chameleon63$; 05-17-2024 at 11:38 PM.
Chameleon63$ - Glad you made this thread. It's great to raise awareness to people about concerns and issues experienced with a vendor. My suggestion would be to reduce the emotional element out of your posts. It's totally understandable and acceptable to be frustrated/angry/disappointed/etc and I would be as well considering, but it doesn't help your cause to raise awareness to people and having credibility. I also don't think you owe people the 'facts' and so forth like they are mentioning, like you said you have your reasons and random people on the forum aren't entitled to your information. Similar to in a court case or police investigation sometimes details are not released to the public, because it could compromise things, alert the criminal to what the police know, etc. There are reasons to withhold information and that does not determine the validity of a claim or not.
2fcknfst - this dude definitely seems like he has a relationship with the parties accused. lol. First of all, no one is objective. Every person alive operates with their personal best interest at heart okay. We are all biased towards good outcomes for ourselves, and that's not a bad thing, it's the rational thing to do. Furthermore, having a bias towards your own favorable outcomes doesn't mean you're wrong about what happened. It doesn't mean you're not telling the truth. If you truly think you're an objective person, what that means is you have blind spots you're not aware of, and thus being affected by biases in ways you're not aware of.
Also, I saw you write mention of something along the lines that the vendor accused helped a lot of forum members. But so what, if a company served 99 customers, ripped off 1, perhaps their percentage is low but that still doesn't take away the fact they ripped off one customer and that's wrong. Hey Boeing has been making planes for years with great success....until recently. But no big deal parts are failing, engines are catching fire, doors are flying off, people are getting hurt, but to you boeing is probably a fantastic company because 'most' of the time their planes work.
I make no bones about it; I've spent a lot of dollars with vendors on this site, but comparatively little with the subject vendor, when say, compared to the folks I bought a fully built gearbox from.
As others have noted, myself included, facts talk, bullsh1t walks.
At best, this situation is past its best before date, and everyone seems to conveniently forget the OP had $40k of non functional, or problematic, parts removed from his car by the vendor... Why?
When someone does that, it's because it's broke, not working, or otherwise a liability.
So before all you haters come after me, go search my posts, you'll find that I am not bias, and I will step in for anyone I perceive to be getting the blunt end of the stick, be it consumer, or vendor.
Curious to hear your take on Sams business motor build partner..... (or is it former partner? when things started going south?)
Haha too funny about 3ish months back when I knew in my gut Sam was a scamming Invertebrate but he still had my car in taken apart so I was still playing nice with him. I pretended to have some interest in doing another build with him to try and sweeten the pot hoping it would make him more likely to hurry up finish this one and actually deliver on his promises for the potential of more future business / scam opportunity. He did his usual thing he does with everyone " buddy me an John are tight he owes me favors I can get your motor built before anyones if you bring another car" meanwhile everyone with a brain was pulling out of EVO years prior to this discussion.
Sam will claim alliance with everyone, knows just enough to sound credible, but will never take responsibility. He lied to one guy I know and said he was in the process of building his own shop years ago.
They wouldn't let me fly out to take delivery of my own car. Clearly they knew they had not delivered what the customer had paid for and they had agreed to.
Last edited by Chameleon63$; 05-18-2024 at 04:09 PM.
Haha too funny about 3ish months back when I knew in my gut Sam was a scamming Invertebrate but he still had my car in taken apart so I was still playing nice with him. I pretended to have some interest in doing another build with him to try and sweeten the pot hoping it would make him more likely to hurry up finish this one and actually deliver on his promises for the potential of more future business / scam opportunity. He did his usual thing he does with everyone " buddy me an John are tight he owes me favors I can get your motor built before anyones if you bring another car" meanwhile everyone with a brain was pulling out of EVO years prior to this discussion.
Sam will claim alliance with everyone, knows just enough to sound credible, but will never take responsibility. He lied to one guy I know and saiid he was in the process of building his own shop years ago.
They wouldn't let me fly out to take delivery of my own car. Clearly they knew they had not delivered what the customer had paid for and they had agreed to.
last message I got from Sam was that his parter John / evo spec had 25 builds going and building worlds fastest Porsches and my case / my car was just an unlucky one that slipped through the cracks and please allow them / John more time. At the same time everyone started pulling their cars out.
Funny thing is; I got screwed by John but I did talk to him several times over those 2 years and he actually seems like a decent guy, like he genuinely wanted to make things right but got WAYYYYY over his head. My character radar is pretty good and John seemed like a good engine builder just a bad business man. Sam on the other hand has always rubbed me the wrong way with all the gaslighting and half truths and his “buddy buddy” sales lines. I do hope John gets his stuff figured out and continues building motors and gets himself a good business partner / manager.
I'm upset I missed this thread earlier, as this should be in the 991 turbo subforum. But if it was it would have definitely been deleted very quickly by obvious parties because its against one specific obvious party and that has become obvious.
Originally Posted by Chameleon63$
Further more I anticipate Sam will jump on this thread with a novel only a fraudster would have time to write of gaslighting, uselessly cyclical arguments in which he attempts to write the consumer off as rude and or talk about how much help he has attempted to offer. I am not going to entertain Sam or his you never let me help you narrative. Sam and WorldMotorsport had a year and half to help me and a customer who's only concern was do it right, cut no corners, and make the car safe no matter the cost. They sent the me back a derelict death trap. Sam can type faster and write longer stories on subjects than any person I have ever encountered. Quite honestly I am amazed by how fast he text and types. I can type around 60 words a minute and am nowhere near close to being able to keep up with him. Cleary that's all he does. By trade do you know what we call folks with that skillset? STORY TELLER / FICTIONAL AUTHORS.
Brother I am buying what you're selling., in fact if this was in the other subforum my guys my dudes my bros my team would be ten toes deep in here leaving the same infomercials they do in every thread to dilute your experience.
So you spend 50k and got water instead of coolant? Stage h2O bro.
Originally Posted by white997
I can attest to the accuracy of this account, as I too underwent a strikingly similar ordeal with Sam of World Motorsports and Evospec, with Sam being the common link. A cursory search through my past posts will reveal a partial narrative from two years ago. At that time, the thread was swiftly locked by moderators (understandably, as Sam is a forum sponsor), stifling the opportunity for a full discussion where significant issues could have been aired. Subsequently, I refrained from further engagement on the forum due to stringent moderation policies, though efforts continued behind the scenes.
Sam's actions resulted in a loss of two years and tens of thousands of dollars for me. His trustworthiness is highly questionable; while his forum presence may project a carefully cultivated reputation, my interactions with several former associates and high-value clients have revealed a different reality. I possess ample evidence demonstrating his dishonesty in our transactions, and numerous individuals have privately reached out to me, sharing identical sentiments. Many prefer not to be named publicly due to their connections within the industry. I am willing to share this evidence privately with the moderators to ensure that the forum's response is based on factual evidence rather than perceived personal bias.
In the aftermath, another shop / Todd had to rectify Sam's mistakes over a span of six additional months to complete the work on my car and fix the mess.
I bet the same people tried to get your thread closed too? I'd bet if it was in regards to any other vendor it wouldn't be, just a hunch.
Originally Posted by romvendor
I can also confirm that working with Sam By Design is nothing more than a middle man experience. He sells the work off to the cheapest bidder while just rebranding people's parts from his couch. He uses subpar Xona turbos with aero issues, has no real experience building actual fast cars, and has no business touching anything beyond bolt on hardware such as an exhaust. It is unfortunate for anyone if they spent this kind of money with him because I am certain the story sold isn't the experience that is going to be delivered.
This is a sick first post. High five.
Originally Posted by GT4_Rick
Wow this is an interesting thread.
My takeaways:
Chameleon63$ - Glad you made this thread. It's great to raise awareness to people about concerns and issues experienced with a vendor. My suggestion would be to reduce the emotional element out of your posts. It's totally understandable and acceptable to be frustrated/angry/disappointed/etc and I would be as well considering, but it doesn't help your cause to raise awareness to people and having credibility. I also don't think you owe people the 'facts' and so forth like they are mentioning, like you said you have your reasons and random people on the forum aren't entitled to your information. Similar to in a court case or police investigation sometimes details are not released to the public, because it could compromise things, alert the criminal to what the police know, etc. There are reasons to withhold information and that does not determine the validity of a claim or not.
2fcknfst - this dude definitely seems like he has a relationship with the parties accused. lol. First of all, no one is objective. Every person alive operates with their personal best interest at heart okay. We are all biased towards good outcomes for ourselves, and that's not a bad thing, it's the rational thing to do. Furthermore, having a bias towards your own favorable outcomes doesn't mean you're wrong about what happened. It doesn't mean you're not telling the truth. If you truly think you're an objective person, what that means is you have blind spots you're not aware of, and thus being affected by biases in ways you're not aware of.
Also, I saw you write mention of something along the lines that the vendor accused helped a lot of forum members. But so what, if a company served 99 customers, ripped off 1, perhaps their percentage is low but that still doesn't take away the fact they ripped off one customer and that's wrong. Hey Boeing has been making planes for years with great success....until recently. But no big deal parts are failing, engines are catching fire, doors are flying off, people are getting hurt, but to you boeing is probably a fantastic company because 'most' of the time their planes work.
This, **** happens people make mistakes, even the best shops will have issues. telling someone who spent 50k and got the dick to deal with it and not tell others is asinine.
@Chameleon63$
Objectively you should at least detail what work was supposed to be performed and what parts you were told were no good. Or at least basic scope of the work performed. Is this a bolt on build or did you get the 4 liter headgasket eater ?
I think it is safe to assume that the people that come to this forum are generally intelligent and fully capable of understanding this post for what it is and making their own assessment of how much value to place on it in their decision making process if they are considering working with this vendor.
Last edited by asellus; 05-20-2024 at 12:47 AM.
Reason: removing irrelevant commentary/quoting of removed posts.
IMO Sam shouldn't be allowed to be a sponsor or be apart of this forum. DO NOT CLOSE OR DELETE this thread!
I've had a very similar experience dealing with Sam By Design and John Bray. The word I use to describe the experience is "Fraud'. I have filed a lawsuit against John Bray in AZ (this would be public information). I would be open to talking with anyone who has similar dealings with Sam and would entertain a lawsuit against him.
Is there a petition that we can create to boot Sam from being a sponsor of this group? If so, how many signatures would you need?
I don’t think the mods want to start aggressive cleansing as more ppl will be coming forward. My thread got locked / cleansed 2 years ago by one mod while I had multiple people reach out with support. If my original thread was allowed to go on, back then an argument could be made it would have prevented more ppl from being taken.
05-17-2024, 04:37 PM
