grinch

I purchased a 2019 Carrera T earlier this year (in February 2023) with just under 18,500 miles on the odometer at the time of purchase. It is a CPO, and at the time of purchase the dealer confirmed to me - in writing - that the car was inspected and the 20k service was completed as part of the CPO process. They also communicated in writing that the brakes were "essentially brand new" and the P-Zeros were in brand new condition as well. Fast forward to today (less than 10 months later) and I have put only ~1,000 miles on the car. I scheduled an oil change at my local Porsche dealership today (note: different dealership from where I purchased the car) and they informed me that the oil was filthy, the air filter showed a 2018 code (indicating it had never been changed, which they are supposed to do as part of the 20k service), the brake fluid appears to have never been flushed, and the tires show far more wear than they would have expected for only 1,000 miles. Essentially, they do not believe that a 20k service was ever performed, and they doubt the tires were in brand new condition when the car was CPO'd.

Suffice to say I feel very misled by the first Porsche dealership, and it strikes me that they were either (i) completely incompetent / inept in doing what they were supposed to in order to CPO the vehicle or (ii) unethical and outright deceptive. Or, a combination of both.

Would really appreciate any advice you all have. I am deciding how aggressive I want to be in demanding that the first dealership make it right. Do I ask them to buy back the vehicle? (If they lied about the services done, what else have they lied to me about?) Do I ask them to compensate me for the intermediate service that now needs to be done, which they were supposed to have done already, plus the cost of new tires? Do I get Porsche NA involved?

Jonny9999991

sorry to hear about this

do you have anything in writing regarding the claims they made? If you do then fire an email to them copy in a solicitor of choice and PA threatening legal action and sue the f**k*Rs if they don’t comply. Did they supply an inspection sheet at the time of sale, sure they’ll have a 111 inspection which should cover these items.

They'll try the bs of it depends how you drive with regard to the tyres and brakes, don’t fall for it.

Go in hard and fast and don’t let them come up for air.

If you don’t have anything in writing, then try the soft approach, maybe call them first and explain it all.


Your best bet is reimbursement for the cost of the works carried out by another dealer, since you’ve lost all trust in them, failing that then at least they carry it out and you get it verified.

Failing that, get everyone who’s a member here and uses that dealership to pull up outside and block the entrance and exit and demand your reimbursement!

P.s the last option is a last resort once you’ve exhausted all avenues 😁

Bxstr

A similar situation happened to me from a very reputable out of state Porsche dealer. Highly doubt they will buy back the car. Best they will do is reimburse your dealer for the services that should have been done. You can get PCNA involved, but they typically are not of much help. I had to do a lot of back and forth with the service manager at the dealer I bought it from to get anywhere and in my situation I wasn't even pushing them on all of the issues, just one of the service items that was $300, even though there was much more. You can start talking with the GM too.

grinch

Yes, fortunately I do have in writing the selling dealership's claim that the 20k service was completed, which my current dealership now believes was never done. The current dealership is documenting everything they found for me.

I do think it is going to be a lot of back and forth unfortunately, and I am starting with the Finance Manager who I communicated the most with. Will escalate to the GM if I need to. Will keep you all posted and very much appreciate the advice.

matttheboatman

Ok, just to provide a second point of view, I am not saying you are wrong, just pointing out a few things:

- when you change the oil at 1,000 miles (which I do regularly on my track car), the oil is in fact very dirty.

- changing the air filter and clearing the codes are 2 different things. The air filters do get dirty, surprisingly fast. No way to know for sure if the filter was or was not changed by looking at the existing filter

- same thing on the brake fluid, no way to say for sure if the fluid was previously flushed or not by looking at the existing fluid.

- replacing the tires is NOT part of the CPO process unless the tires are worn past a certain point.

The facts are if the car was CPO'd, then there DEFINATELY is a checklist of the services that were completed, not an opinion or sales BS, but a specific form. Whether or not that also included the 20k interval I can not say, but I can say for sure the checklist exists as part of the vehicles history - mandatory by Porsche in order from them to provide the CPO warranty. So I would request that checklist and determine for yourself if it included the items on the 20k interval.

grinch

Very much appreciate the second point of view. I think the high-level issue as I see it is: dealer #1 say they did the 20k interval which is obviously quite pricey; and dealer #2 has pointed out a number of data points that suggest it was not done. But again I do appreciate the specific points you laid out.

CSK 911 C4S

Did the selling dealer actually give you the service records from the other dealer who claimed the CPO services were completed?

grinch

Yes I have the 111-pt list that was included with the sale. It basically just says “pass” for everything and lists the tire tread and brake pad measurements. It does not list services that were completed. All I have in writing is an email from the sales associate saying that the 20k service was done.

Larson E. Rapp

For the dealer, the incentives are clear:

1) Verify that all four tires contain at least some air
2) Pencil-whip the rest of the list
3) Deal with any fallout later

Chances are 99% it will never come back to haunt them, so it's cheaper to blow it off.

Gaspasser19

Sorry you’re going through this indoctrination into the Porsche CPO experience. There are most certainly some unscrupulous dealerships out there. Back in 2006 I purchased my first CPO’d car and learned over the next few years that the car did not meet criteria for being CPO’d for a number of reasons. I incurred some expenses as a result. The dealer was of no help and PCNA seemed to not care.
Fast forward to 2022 when I was shopping for another 911 and I was a much more sophisticated buyer and knew what to look for and what questions to ask. I found numerous Porsche dealers who routinely faked CPO inspection reports. It took almost a year to find a car and dealer that passed the sniff test.
I would suggest you take the advice offered earlier in this thread and get aggressive from the start. Have your attorney contact the GM and present your evidence of fraud. Tell the GM what will make it right in your eyes and go from there.

asellus

as much as I hate the tinfoil hat "dealerships are out to getcha" conspiracy theories, the CPO process is hardly regulated. after 10 months it's kinda difficult to say something like "the tires weren't replaced"

rwbern

I have had nothing but great CPO service from the purchasing dealer and to a lesser degree, the local dealership. On my younger days, I would be standing with the aggressive, hard ball approach expressed here. Maybe I have just mellowed a bit with time, but an old timer sales rep told me once, “Son, the story is in the telling’”. I have been very successful with a more calm, organized approach to any questionable CPO problem.

I would get an appointment with the manager simply indicating I have some concerns I would like to discuss about my car. Open the meeting expressing your appreciation for his time and lay the second dealer report on the desk & ask for his opinion. From there, go with the flow. The manager should do whatever it takes to set your mind at ease.

You have a car that has an approved, valid CPO, so buyback is really not an option imo. Review the service records they should be able to provide. If the oil was changed within recommended mileages, you have no issue to claim. Sorry, but tires with 18.5K miles are not going to “look” like new. Filters? Maybe a minor problem. If you have only driven the car 1K miles, not sure you have enough time to really know if there are any issues. I know you feel deceived, but it may not be as you initially perceive.

Have a cocktail & enjoy the T-Day weekend. :-)

HardRider

what are the date codes on the tires? CPO does not guarantee new tires just can't be worn below a spec. Same with brakes. I changed my own oil after 1 year it came out looking new with 2500 miles. There is also a date code on the oil filter. My brake fluid looks new also. I always wonder how many lie about the CPO inspection. Small claims court is the perfect avenue. Starts with demand letter sent to that dealer assigned agent. You bypass all the dumb mother ****** at the dealership real quick....

grinch

Again, really appreciate everyone’s input - from all perspectives. This is what this forum is supposed to be about, so thank you.

totally agree with the point about the tires… at this point, it’s not a hill I want to die on. I think, however, if you claim to perform a 20k service and that should always include oil change, yet fail to do so, that crosses the line of being unethical. It’s not about the dollar amount. If you represent to doing something yet knowingly do otherwise, that is wrong.

I’ve reached out to the original dealership and will keep you all posted on what I learn.

Jonny9999991

I think you have a point regarding this approach, in a professional environment or you may have just dealt with decent human beings.

Unfortunately every time I’ve been understanding with ppl in car dealerships they seem to think “ah I’m going to sweet talk this guy out even more money” and it’s only when I get tough with them do they unwillingly comply.

Sad that it gets to that, but unless you’ve been dealing with a manager or someone who’s been there a few years and is half decent, my auto response is, you tried it on with me now you better fix it or it’s going legal, every time it’s worked. I then have chitchat and small talk after.

One service rep even asked to talk to me outside and apologised for being a **** and said it’s his boss who’s made him act like a con artist and he was so happy I didn’t accept their bs, I didn’t believe him!

Either way be yourself and good luck!