rensoyka

last year I was looking to buy a used jeep wrangler for my kid, found one at dealer, pretty good shape and "certified". well what they do is advertise it as such but they don't actually certify it until someone buys it. once they put it on the lift and looked at it carefully they called me and gave my deposit back. the car listing was changed to "as is".

Atheist

I was seriously considering a 2016 991.1 gts CPO car. The leather behind the instrument cluster had pulled out from under the flat part of the dash. The dealer wanted to have a leather guy fix it but I could see that the leather was not the issue. The entire dash piece that goes over the cluster and all the way across had slightly warped and it pulled the leather out from under the non leather part of the dash. The dealer was trying to get a leather repair to mask the real issue. They did not want to spend what they said was quite expensive to replace the entire dash so I found another car. Frankly I didn't notice it until we were very close to a deal and they pointed out it would not be a warranty item.

DarienA

You can always call Porsche directly and they can tell you the CPO expiration date.

PV997

I've never understood the obsession with peace of mind when buying a car that can do 0-60 in just over four seconds and take corners at twice the posted speed. It's like we're buying life insurance rather than a high performance sports car.

People should do what best matches their own personal risk tolerance. But understand that most appeals to "peace of mind" are a psychological ploy to emotionally manipulate people into buying expensive stuff they don't really need. There's good reason people run the other way when they see a life insurance salesman coming, no one likes being guilt-tripped into spending money.

CPO is an extended warranty that is rolled into the price of the car, and (on average) it makes money for the dealership or they wouldn't be doing it. If that's what you want then great, but if peace of mind is a huge concern then maybe it's not the right car in the first place. There are plenty of less exotic cars that offer far more peace of mind.

rensoyka

well I'm thinking that people, me included, want some coverage against something catastrophic happening. it's not like you're going to the local scrap yard for a replacement if the engine seizes or pdk packs it in. it's the $20-40$k repairs that are rather concerning. some people don't buy homeowners insurance, but you see it in the news, some smoker or chef burned down their house and now they have a big gofundme.

Atheist

Well possibly some people who can afford a car that cost in excess of $100K might actually be business savvy and understand risk mitigation. So for example in my case, the difference between taking the chance over the course of five years of hard driving without worry that something pretty costly might break which could cause a a major out of pocket expense, can be mitigated completely by adding an extra few bucks to my monthly payment. That might be a prudent decision. Especially since the cost of a 5 year extended 60K miles warranty is about $5K to $6K and I can almost guarantee that if it doesn't pay for itself, over 5 years it most certainly will recoup a some portion of that, if not all and then some. I always finance a car even if though I can pay cash. My cash earns more money than the interest of a car payment. Besides, for me the difference of $60 or $70 per month for a warranty on top of a car payment that's near $2K is negligible at best. It is the cost of a half a bottle of decent liquor per month. As for the CPO warranty, typically the maintenance performed just to make the car up to CPO spec would probably cost more than the approx $2500 to $3000 the dealer charges to CPO the car. If you purchased the car as it was traded to the dealer before the CPO you would most likely be replacing, tires, brakes and doing routine maintenance very close to the same amount it takes to bring it to current spec. The one caveat being for guys who actually can and are qualified, with the proper diagnostic / tools and equipment to service and repair most items themselves. Also a CPO car eliminates a lot of purchase hassle of having a mechanic inspect the car. You have two years to discover any issues. Buying piece of mind doesn't equate to being fearful. The cost of warranty, even if you fall short of recouping the entire cost is still worth the possible minor financial downside vs the possible major loss. It is why insurance exists, it is to prevent unexpected or unplanned catastrophic loss but I use that term lightly as no car expense even a total loss would be considered catastrophic to me. One other aspect of the warranty for me and this is really key, a warranty backed by Porsche, should something go awry, means instead of trying to deal with my very good independent Porsche mechanic, who saves me money but is always almost fully booked, the cost of any repair will become a non issue. I can take the car to the Porsche dealer who is expensive. In return I get dealer high end treatment which means drop car off and pick up free loaner Porsche and a repair done in a very timely fashion. Any repair done at the Porshce dealer also comes with a warranty on the repair and the parts used. Independent mechanics, no matter how good typically, have experience on older cars due to the fact that the cars that are only 5 or 6 years old typically have spent most their lives under factory warranty. How many independents have experience working on 991.2 or 992 cars? Probably haven't worked on many since most have been worked on by dealers still under warranty.

CubsFan1

It is worth it. However, it does not mean someone shouldn’t perform all normal due diligence. I believe this is where some out of state buyers make mistakes. Assumptions are made that CPO = amazing car with zero blemishes or concerns. It’s still a used car and needs to be looked at prior to purchase.

There are some nuances to how the CPO transfers, etc. Unless you are the person/buyer signing the CPO docs then you’re buying one that has already started. That’s the easy tell with the start date. The big benefit (when performed properly) is that CPO does require service to be up to date at that moment in time. So there is absolutely value if you’re the buyer and validate the one you’re purchasing is up to date on service. Some owners get the oil changed every year but skip or hold off on the major services, e.g., 4yr.

In my experience I’ve always looked for the car first and not CPO. This is where I see a big difference with going to buy a Honda or something similar. There are so many different optioned 911s you can’t always find the perfect car and CPO. When the right car is found and it has CPO that’s the bonus. I agree it’s a dealer hook and a unique feature only available from Porsche (or private buyer with time remaining). And there’s cost associated with it. But again I see more variability in price based on how the car is equipped vs only factoring CPO.

HardRider

Cubsfan1 is dead on "The big benefit (when performed properly) is that CPO does require service to be up to date at that moment in time. So there is absolutely value if you’re the buyer and validate the one you’re purchasing is up to date on service. Some owners get the oil changed every year but skip or hold off on the major services, e.g., 4yr."

I don't know how much cost CPO added to the price but with 20K miles new plugs, filters, brake flush, tires, guaranteed two keys was 90% of perceived benefit. He also nailed it, CPO doesn't mean flawless, in fact CPO allows some amount of repaired body damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doing it again CPO would not make a difference one way or the other with me, did a 20K mile engine need new plugs because it was 4 years old (no) giant air filter couldn't have been plugged blah blah blah. I paid retail for Porsche to do maintenance... On flip side individuals are delusion on their pricing so most time CPO is same price as individual without CPO so might as well get it for free.....

yosshaa

Mine came with about 5k in maintenance (tires, drive belt, battery, front lip, oil change, brake bleed) to bring to CPO standard, on top of the previous owner pretty much doing a 40k service at 32k (new spark plugs and stuff)

dak911

Makes you wonder what they "paid" the owner for the car

vanlieremead

So question, Can a 911 be CPO’d at any point in its existence?

I have a 2019 C2S in perfect running condition with 19k mi. I’d call the overall very good with some small chips up front. CPO is supposed to come off in 2025 I believe a maintenance always done by Porsche. Next year time for a major plus new tires.

If I trade it in for another Porsche will the next person be availed a new CPO period?

I think that person would be getting a great 911 in that case and I’d come away with a new one as well. Seems like the way to go.

dak911

I think it has to do with Year and Mileage...
I someone has a 2017/2018 S Cab PDK they are going to trade.. hmmmm

Bxstr

I don't have a lot of faith in the CPO process. I bought a CPO 997.2 C2S from a dealer in the south (I'm out of state), they're a Porsche Premier dealer, an Exclusive Manufacturer Partner and a Classic Partner. They're also pretty involved with the community, both car community and local community. With that, you'd think they'd have very high standards and would follow the CPO process to a T. However, this was not the case. On the CPO side they "missed" replacing the drive belt (could have been intentional, may not have been), even though it needed to be replaced. Now, when I brought this up to them, you'd think they'd instantly jump into action and authorize my local dealer to replace the drive belt and reimburse my dealer. No, they fought back and forth with me over 10-20 emails. It's not like I'd want a second new drive belt on there if it was already done, so I would have no reason to want this done unless it was truly not done. I believe there was something else they didn't do that they marked as having done or that should have been done, but I cannot remember as this was five years ago. Then we get into the gray areas of CPO and the % wear. For instance, my front brakes were at 55% pad life. The gray area between 50% (when things need to be replaced) and 55% is quite small. If I remember correctly, my local dealer marked it as 50% remaining when I had the car in, less than 100 miles after I received it. They replaced the rear tires as part of CPO due to being below minimum tread thickness but the front tires were at 5-5.5 years at the time. No issue there, I get that it hasn't met the age max yet, but just keep in mind that even the best of dealers are not going to be replacing things that they don't have to replace if it's even within a couple months or % of spec. They want to maximize their profit. There was also a pretty large mechanical brake issue that my local dealer and the regional tech from PCNA could not figure out, so I ended up selling the car to my local dealer (who was trying to fix it, obviously they knew about the issue).

Then we get into the condition and ethics of the dealers that are selling any car, but you'd hope that when you're spending top dollar on a CPO car, they'd be honest. I asked three very specific and simple questions. 1) does the car have any paint work (what are factory thickness levels). I was told no, it's all original paint. This was not the truth, I paint metered the car and it was very obvious the rear quarter was repainted. I also talked with the first owner who bought the car from the same sales guy and he indicated it was actually repainted prior to him getting the car due to some damage from when it was a PCNA exec car before he got it. 2) does the car have clear film. I was told yes, on the front bumper. The car did not have clear film, except on the tow hook cover. I understand how they may have quickly looked at it and thought it had film, but when you're selling a Porsche, I'd recommend an extra minute to verify that prior to telling a customer. 3) do factory wheels that are on the build sheet come with the car (it had aftermarket wheels in the pics that they sent me). I was told yes, the original wheels on the build sheet are included. They were not. When I flew down to sign papers on the car, they were a random set of other Porsche wheels, not the wheels listed. Yes, I did choose to buy the car even knowing these things were not as represented, which was not a great choice, but I have my reasons for buying it, I'd highly recommend that when flying down an inspecting a car you go down there with the expectation of not buying, instead of the expectation of buying.

There's very few dealers that I'd trust to buy sight unseen from. That list is also getting smaller and smaller after I saw a BAT ad for an M3 this past week where the seller (who was selling the car on BAT) had bought the car from a very reputable BMW specialty dealer who failed to disclose accident damage. There were some circumstances surrounding it that make the situation a bit challenging, however.

Then best way to look at CPO is a great warranty, that is certainly the truth, mine paid out probably near $10k in repairs while we were trying to diagnose the braking issue. It also should have baseline (50%+) minimum wear on components and you do have some level of recourse if you inspect the car and they didn't do something.

But in the case of my situation, I lost a tremendous amount of money within a year simply due to an unethical dealer when selling me a CPO car. A lot of the issues I mentioned were not with the CPO process itself, but some of your question did surround around how "fussy" they are. I would say, "not very fussy", even on a top dollar CPO car from a top quality Porsche dealer.

Best of luck with your search.

dak911

Your experience is unfortunate...But the bottom line is These are CAR DEALERS and most people trust car dealers less than Politicians..
I will only buy a car from a dealer that is within driving distance ... Buying even a CPO car is a gamble...I'd really like to buy a car privately from someone like me
I am selling my 2013 Boxster and have been very honest with the prospective buyers....(and I am very fussy) IF there was a problem with the car I would trade it rather than sell it to someone,,,
Hopefully the "prospective" buyer who "says" he wants the car will complete the deal when we get back from our cruise next week....then the "fun" starts....looking for a 991.....

PV997

I think you nailed it. Many view CPO as proof the car is sound and things like a PPI or inspection aren't required. That may have been somewhat true at one point but there are plenty of anecdotal reports that it no longer is. It's surprising as you would think PCNA would better police this but IMO they have gotten pretty lax. Many dealers have been hit hard since 2020, with lack of inventory and fewer routine maintenance visits. That has led to PCNA pretending not to see dealer behavior that once would have been called out (again my opinion).

If you plan on exclusively using a dealership for repairs then CPO makes sense as it is an excellent warranty. But if you DIY or use an indy then it's not such a great deal as dealer repair costs are significantly inflated, so the repair cost risk is much lower. You are paying for a warranty (rolled into the car price) against the high cost of dealership repairs, not the actual repair costs.