Driv200

Hey 991.2 fans. Looking at the softer Pcar market to do some tuning on a 991.2. Plan is to drop in the Pure Turbos with upgraded intercoolers and a full exhaust with headers, cat delete, and valved exhaust. That said, entry price does matter, hence the question here. The used Carrera T offers the best base price, but the used 4S wide body is my preferred look. So that’s it. Which one better fits the goal of 600HP? Plan is for a weekend hoonigan car, PCA autoX, spring & fall PCA tours. The 4S brings 10k premium over the T which almost seals the deal for my budget. But then there is the 30k mile 4S out there with options. The T can be base trim I guess since that’s what it’s about. Any 4S is preferred to be loaded with options. Must haves are the rear axle steer, sport chrono/sport package, 14 way seats(minimum) prefer the LWBS or 18 way. PDK or manual. Everything else is here or there.

Any thoughts? Welcome feedback. And any guys thinking about selling who haven’t posted their cars yet? Let me know.

My market research shows average:
* 2018-19 T’s at $99,000 at 10.000 miles..
* 2017 4S at $105,000 with 25,000-30,000 miles loaded with most options.
* ‘17-‘18 2S cars at $105,000 with 2,000-22,000 miles at $105,000

Tier1Terrier

Sounds like the T is the way to go especially since you already plan to change out the turbos and everything else. What you would gain from the 4S is the wider body ("preferred look" as you said), an all wheel drive. The increased horsepower of the "S" is negated by the other changes you plan to make. I would say the T is definitely a better car for hooning on it's own especially if you are getting a properly optioned T.

Pakman996-991.2

I have a 2017 base carrera with upgraded GTS turbos, Tial IC, Tial inlet tubes, Vektor headers, Akra cats, BMC filter, flat 6 diverter valves and a stage 3 Apr tune 93 octane for winter (switching to E85 in the summer). Power estimate 582 hp to 648 hp according to APR based on fuel.

It’s going to be hard putting all that power down without all wheel drive. I’m realizing this more and more and would have gone the C4S route if I could do it all over again. I also daily drive it and living in the northeast all wheel drive would be nice in the cold/snow.

But if you are not chasing 1/4 mile times and don’t daily drive it then I guess it’s probably more fun to have a rwd, light weight 600 Hp beast. Also, if you go the PDK route, be sure to get a TCU tune to avoid issues. Great problem to have my friend! Good luck with the purchase!!

Driv200

Thanks guys. Good feedback for both models. Ha! Agree with the S turbos being negated after turbo mods. Good tip about the TCU tune! Hadn’t seen that yet. Just learned about the mechanical diff vs the electrical diff (T vs S). Love the build on your daily! And ofcourse the RWD is more fun with your power.

MingusDew

Depends on how you plan on using it. I’m not sure I would enjoy larger turbos in my T. I like the low end of the smaller turbos, better for shooting out of turns in the canyons, where I spend 90% of my mileage driving my car. My little turbos make plenty of power with just a tune and the car is a rocket in the canyons. If I was planning to build a drag/runway racer, or just lived somewhere with a lot of straight roads (Florida, Texas, etc.) then I would see some of the appeal of having more straight line speed and need the top end power that larger turbos afford. If I lived somewhere it snowed, I would consider 4S, but honestly I always have a truck so in bad weather I’m taking that for the extra ground clearance. In general though, I don’t like the steering in the AWD cars, I prefer the steering and car dynamics with RWD, but I come from a background with lots of experience sliding around. However, lots of people prefer that planted stability of AWD and enjoy the extra weight on the front axle and how that balances the chassis dynamics. It really just depends on your own wants and needs, and you know that better than us. My vote is for a T 😊

Pb Pedis

OP, with a mod list like that why don’t you just get a Turbo or Turbo S? With a pro-tune alone on a 991.2 TTS you will be over 700HP.

thesaintusa

Agree with the recommendations to sort out what you want from the car / how will you be using it? Will the car be seeing the track / autocross / spirited driving in the mountains? Will it see snow?

RWD:
Even though RWD the 911 does not have the driving dynamics of a standard front engine/RWD layout with a 50:50 F:R weight balance.
I put a set of winter tires on my 911 and it does fine in winter conditions (aside from deep snow). FWIW, I drove 2 winters in my C63 and it does just fine. It was much easier to step the back end out when you wanted to in the C63. The 911 takes much more commitment and is less forgiving.
Putting down the power is always the issue.
The front end is lighter and feels lighter.
The GTS has the widebody of the C4/C4S.

AWD:
Can take advantage of the extra power of your plans.
Will handle winter better, but not mandatory for use in the winter.
Drive one and decide if you like how it feels.

If you want RWD and widebody, go for the GTS.

The best part of your situation is that you are dealing with a win-win situation.

Driv200

If I could afford entry into a Turbo S, I would. The GTS is still a bit higher than my entry price can afford. My mods will spend same money or more, but I can do mods over time. Otherwise I agree, GTS is my best bet. I can’t find one under $130k. Turbo S is over $170k. And those center locks…..more expense for second set of rims.

I’m trying to maximize my fun factor around $90-$100k entry price. The car will be garaged and loved when it’s not being used for PCA events and occasional track days. Mostly weekend drive events and turnpike runs. PCA Autocross also.

I enjoy a good Turbo car with mods. I loved my 2020 Cayman GT4, but I want some top end power and with plenty of thrust. Loved my EVO IX RS with 700hp and AWD. Trying to find the right balance in a fun, modded, high horsepower car. This is where the .2 can play with the big boys. The T is more focused for the job. The 4S is more mature, but mostly about looks for me. I expect more options on the 4S. The T just has to have the right options mentioned above.

VektorPerformance

^ I agree with this.

For us, I really preferred the look of the 4S, and the AWD really lets you lay into the power more advantageously (especially modified) for track and auto-x events. Now I am not a track super star, so maybe the AWD makes me a better driver than I actually am, but I'll take it

On the street, again with a decent bump in power, like any RWD high output car, you will need to be more careful managing the throttle vs AWD where you can lay into it quite a bit more before things get too exciting.

thesaintusa

I sold my 04 Surbaru STi (heavily modified) once I picked up my 911 and regret it everyday. It was so much fun to drive and handled better than it should have been allowed to. The beauty of that car was the ability to put down as much power as you wanted whenever you wanted, the suspension was sorted out perfectly, the lack of stability control / traction control and manual transmission. The major downsides: spartan interior, NVH, and the NVH. Parking space is an issue and I had to decide between 2 cars, and the Subaru went away. I still see it driving around town and contemplate buying it back. There were days I chose to drive the Subaru to work over the 911. My other project car is a 93 RX-7, and being RWD with a ton of power, no TC or stability control it is a handful to drive. It is a blast on the track, and when I used to autocross it dominated in SS in the late 90s.

If you are comfortable managing a RWD car with a lot of power then get a RWD GTS :) That being said, the driving dynamics of the 911 are completely different than a car that has a 50:50 weight distribution. The momentum / weight shifts / throttle inputs required to step out the 911 are completely different and will catch many people off guard. Big power drifts are easy to do in a front engine car. The 911 requires more commitment.

If you feel that you would feel more comfortable with AWD and putting down huge power then get an AWD 911.

The 2 above comments are probably the first item you want to sort out in your algorithm, and put that answer/decision ahead of how you will use the car.

Driv200

Thanks for above comments. Helpful to hear the feedback. My EVO was a blast, I grew tired keeping it together above 600hp. The .2 appears to be a plug and play option w/o giving up dependability.

The market is becoming a buyers market. Especially for cash buyers. Increasing interest rates are bringing down prices, but slowing down sales.

Although I do fewer track days than I used to, I still tend to upgrade and think in these terms.

Pakman996-991.2

I can relate to this. I’ve always wanted a Turbo S but can’t justify the cost. You can build yourself a baby Turbo S with just bolt on’s and a tune. That’s the real beauty of the .2 platform.

I got my car in Jan 2021. It had 40,000 miles on it and came with 2 year CPO. It was serviced at the Porsche dealer I bought it from and was a clean example. You can get a good deal if you don’t mind the extra miles.

I took the slow approach to my build. Drove it stock for a year just to get a feel for the car and burn off some CPO. Year later went with the APR stage 1 tune. I kept an out on the Rennlist marketplace for over 2 years and was able to get really good deals on quality parts from fellow rennlisters.

Started with the cats, then headers, inlet tubes and DV’s. Then ran into a new set of GTS turbos and Tial IC from another Rennlist member. All in I’m just a tick over $23k in mods + labor spread out over 2 years. Point is a Turbo S is $170k and total cost for my build is $110k all in. Rennlist is a great community so highly recommend leveraging it!

ClassJ

I have a tuned manual T that is otherwise stock. It has the factory P4S tires. It certainly is traction limited at just around 500hp/500ftlbs ish especially if it gets a little cold or damp outside. For me, fast rear wheel drive cars that are traction limited are fun. I like the narrow body.

There is a lot I like about the T. You may just like it with a tune and a few other tweaks.

Once you go up from a T personally I would go with a C4 GTS at that point. Unless you have a burning desire to mess with the turbos's, the stock turbo's and a tune you will be 560hp / 575 torque ish. Headers and intercoolers would help a bit more.

If I was building a daily driver street rocket I would probably go all wheel drive. I also probably would consider PDK if you are really going up to those power levels. At 600 hp I would be cautious with the gearbox and clutch.

Speed2k

Both are good choices, but FYI, if you go with a T, make sure it's a manual, the PDK version never came with LSD.

flsupraguy

T is really a parts bin special car UNLESS it is spec-d with carbon buckets, manual, and rws....... Just get a gts or 4s (wide body) and add a tune.