Car values dropping
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wquiles (08-13-2022)
08-13-2022 | 01:31 PM
#393
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 445
I actually despise most consiracy theories/theorist
But in this case it just does not make sense, AND the numbers do not add up.
Volume does not equal profit. Lets start there. MY 2012.5 had a sticker of 105K nicely equipped. I added 5K in OEM options but lets leave those out for this example. The same car 10 years later I just configured would cost you 127,030. Without starting the tired NA conversation performance has improved by 2mph on the top end and .4 seconds to 60mph. A valid upgrade from a sheer numbers perspective but if it were software if would be a revision level upgrade, not night and day. So the same car would cost you 22,030 more and I would be willing to bet production cost are less. This means they have taken the same unit and increased profit by a guestimate of 20% taking into the account the increased sales price and decreased production cost. This would mean you only need to sell 4 units instead of 5 to make the same amount of profit. They are by their own reports the most profitable car company in the world. Manufacturers have learned that the more they sell a commodity the less money they make. This is directly opposed to the idea that by increasing volume you increase profit. During my time at 3M we would not even discuss price with the customer and it was strictly prohibited by leadership. Our product cost more and we are unapologetic and may have sold less but no one cared because we still made more money by increasing the profit on our unit cost. The pandemic has provided to perfect backdrop for de-commoditization by smart manufacturers like Porsche and Ford. We as customers of course suffer but that is capitalism in an oligarchy.
Volume does not equal profit. Lets start there. MY 2012.5 had a sticker of 105K nicely equipped. I added 5K in OEM options but lets leave those out for this example. The same car 10 years later I just configured would cost you 127,030. Without starting the tired NA conversation performance has improved by 2mph on the top end and .4 seconds to 60mph. A valid upgrade from a sheer numbers perspective but if it were software if would be a revision level upgrade, not night and day. So the same car would cost you 22,030 more and I would be willing to bet production cost are less. This means they have taken the same unit and increased profit by a guestimate of 20% taking into the account the increased sales price and decreased production cost. This would mean you only need to sell 4 units instead of 5 to make the same amount of profit. They are by their own reports the most profitable car company in the world. Manufacturers have learned that the more they sell a commodity the less money they make. This is directly opposed to the idea that by increasing volume you increase profit. During my time at 3M we would not even discuss price with the customer and it was strictly prohibited by leadership. Our product cost more and we are unapologetic and may have sold less but no one cared because we still made more money by increasing the profit on our unit cost. The pandemic has provided to perfect backdrop for de-commoditization by smart manufacturers like Porsche and Ford. We as customers of course suffer but that is capitalism in an oligarchy.
Everything is a conspiracy! Porsche isn't a manufacturer of "rare" cars (for the most part) and don't seem to want to move in that direction. If you think they want to purposefully decrease production while trying to IPO, you're rather funny. Supply chain issues aren't a "false narrative". They're very much a reality and continue to linger through the perfect storm of still on-going global events that created them. It's also worth noting that increasing the price does not always equal increasing profits, especially when your costs are rising due to inflation and hence your price adjustments are made to mostly account for that.
Regardless, prices are falling and cars are sitting much longer, even GT cars, tho not as much as non-GT cars. Oddly enough there are more 992 GT3s on the market right now than 991.2 GT3s. As things very slowly return to "normal" the trend of falling prices will continue, slowly but surely.
Regardless, prices are falling and cars are sitting much longer, even GT cars, tho not as much as non-GT cars. Oddly enough there are more 992 GT3s on the market right now than 991.2 GT3s. As things very slowly return to "normal" the trend of falling prices will continue, slowly but surely.
Last edited by Bud Taylor; 08-13-2022 at 01:32 PM.
08-13-2022 | 02:25 PM
#394
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,437
Likes: 1,419
From: LI NY
Porsche Corporate has quite a checkered past. From its Pre-war origins to questionable stock purchases. I would not put anything past them.
That being said....I still think they produce some of the greatest cars and I admire their design/engineering.
That being said....I still think they produce some of the greatest cars and I admire their design/engineering.
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Bud Taylor (08-14-2022)
08-14-2022 | 05:20 PM
#396
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 91
Likes: 52
How about this manual C4S going RNM at only $93K? I believe this dealership had it listed at $130K before listing it on BAT.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rera-4s-coupe/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rera-4s-coupe/
08-14-2022 | 06:13 PM
#397
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 34
Likes: 19
How about this manual C4S going RNM at only $93K? I believe this dealership had it listed at $130K before listing it on BAT.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rera-4s-coupe/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rera-4s-coupe/
08-15-2022 | 10:00 AM
#400
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 378
FWIW my friend just sold his 2018 McLaren 570GT for $10k more than he paid 2 years ago (bought it used). Traded in for a 600 LT Spyder. Looking forward to driving it.
As many have discussed you can sell for a profit in many cases, but what are you going to buy?
My dealer is still willing to buy my 2019 GTS for more than I paid with 13k miles, but problem is what would I be able to buy?
My friend and I were discussing how neither his purchase or mine were made with any consideration to depreciation, but we are not complaining. I have no plans yet to trade in/sell my car, but I do have plans to get other cars in the future.
As many have discussed you can sell for a profit in many cases, but what are you going to buy?
My dealer is still willing to buy my 2019 GTS for more than I paid with 13k miles, but problem is what would I be able to buy?
My friend and I were discussing how neither his purchase or mine were made with any consideration to depreciation, but we are not complaining. I have no plans yet to trade in/sell my car, but I do have plans to get other cars in the future.
08-15-2022 | 10:06 AM
#401
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 890
From: 91North/75South
FWIW my friend just sold his 2018 McLaren 570GT for $10k more than he paid 2 years ago (bought it used). Traded in for a 600 LT Spyder. Looking forward to driving it.
As many have discussed you can sell for a profit in many cases, but what are you going to buy?
My dealer is still willing to buy my 2019 GTS for more than I paid with 13k miles, but problem is what would I be able to buy?
My friend and I were discussing how neither his purchase or mine were made with any consideration to depreciation, but we are not complaining. I have no plans yet to trade in/sell my car, but I do have plans to get other cars in the future.
As many have discussed you can sell for a profit in many cases, but what are you going to buy?
My dealer is still willing to buy my 2019 GTS for more than I paid with 13k miles, but problem is what would I be able to buy?
My friend and I were discussing how neither his purchase or mine were made with any consideration to depreciation, but we are not complaining. I have no plans yet to trade in/sell my car, but I do have plans to get other cars in the future.
08-15-2022 | 10:07 AM
#402
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 106
Likes: 35
From: Texas
08-15-2022 | 10:15 AM
#403
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 34
Likes: 19
