NewTX911

Hi all - I’ve always admired Porsche and have probably chosen the most difficult time to buy my first one. After learning a newbuild 992 GTS is practically impossible for me to get (I don’t believe in paying ridiculous ADMs), I started looking into 2015-2016 991.1 GTSs (last naturally aspirated, test drove one and felt/sounded great). Any advice from the group? - things to watch out for, must-have options, places to look besides Autotrader, etc? I’m coming from the NSX world - owned a 1997 NA2 NSX for 15 years and had a 2017 NC1 NSX for four years and have a 2022 NSX Type S on order. I miss driving a manual so am currently leaning towards finding a manual and want something that complements the 2022 NSX (AWD, auto, mid-engine, hybrid - so RWD, manual, rear engine, ICE only sounds great!).

Also, any suggestions for other alternatives to consider - Porsche or otherwise? There are so many Porsche trims to make my head spin (do like daily drivability and 2+2 seating of 911). Thanks in advance.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

The 991.1 GTS is a wonderful car. In that vicinity I’d also consider the 997.2 GTS (personally, I prefer the 997.2 to the 991.1, but that’s me).

As an appreciator of manual transmissions and naturally aspirated engines, I think you need to drive a Shelby GT350. I had one for 5 years. The drivetrain is among the most soulful and visceral ever put in any car. The only thing comparable I’ve driven is an F430 Scuderia, and I think the Shelby’s drivetrain fizzes more.

Base/S/T 991.2. Drive one. Matt Farah says the .2 is the superior car, but your experience and what speaks to you is what matters.

Buying a C8 Corvette Z06 is probably over a year away, and not a 2+2, but damn they’re interesting.

Cayman GTS/GT4. Simply brilliant. IMO if you don’t need rear seats the Cayman/Boxster should be high on your drive homework list.

BMW E46 M3, E9X M3 - neoclassics that are simply better than their successors.

EDIT: You can search for used cars at Porsche Dealerships on Porsche USA. I’d also suggest Autotempest as it searches most if the other sites with a single search. Porsche dealers will give you maintenance records, but most other dealers won’t. If I were you, I’d become a PCA member and act like a vulture in the PCA classifieds. Be prepared to search nationwide for the car you want. Get a PPI.

Tommy L Garage

For me based on experience:

1. Don’t discount a 981 Cayman S or GTS. Fantastic platforms with amazing shifting feel and the best exhaust note in the business (with a SOUL muffler).

2. But don’t be so stuck on a .1. The 991.2 is better than .1 in every way except the exhaust note. But that can be fixed with a set of headers and sport cats.

desmotesta

Seriously? wow

No intention to derail this thread, but you couldnt be far from target.. but we can discuss this till we are blue in the face

(several prolonged test drives in .2 Base and .2 GTS are the objective proof I have)

Graufuchs

Keep the negativity up on the 991.2, can't wait to get a second one.

desmotesta

no need to worry about my "negativity". Your .2 can smoke mine in a straight line, I will be left in the dust

Tommy L Garage

Fellas. This thread will be full of personal opinions. No need to attack each other. We love what we love. Can’t force your opinion into one another.

The OP will read it all and decide for him/herself

Bud Taylor

I prefer the drama of the .1 due to power delivery not sound. An N/A car has to be wound out. This is my fun car so not concerned about daily driving manners. The .1 will get smoked in a drag race but I did not buy the car to drag race. I think you dodged a bullet on the 992. The interior is a disaster and it loses the 911 mantra of simplicity.

Sal635

In my opinion, if you want a 991.1 it all depends how much time you can spend above 4500-5000 rpm. That’s where the excitement and emotion start to happen.

Drive as many different 991 models as you can, both .1 and .2. You’ll be able to tell which one(s) speak to you.

I’ve found there is so much variety in 911s that you really can’t rely on anyone else’s opinion and you need to experience them to know for yourself.

I had some surprises in my test drives. I hated the manual, and found the clutch numb and the manual lacking in mechanical feel. Given that I weirdly discovered I preferred the PDK in manual mode. I also found I needed the alcantara interior for the car to feel sporty and not luxury. Lastly, I didn’t connect with the .2 the way I did with the .1 but I really really wish the .1 had a better PCM.

The list of changes from .1 to .2 are numerous and significant. Many improvements were made from body panels, to door handles, to infotainment, to lighting, and the biggie: the motor.

Good luck and have fun shopping. It was a great experience for me.

desmotesta

You hit the nail on the head. People who dont understand try to explain it away as "sound difference". Its all in the power delivery and the theater. I am a 2-wheel racer, raced fr over 20 years and the N/A engine's power delivery is like my race bikes. Not much down below but if you have the skill to keep it singing, it will reward you in droves.
The high pitch sound that simply cannot be replicated, and the way it wakes up after 4K and screams to redline. All those dozens of car videos of the N/A GTS, both GT4 generations, heck even the GT3s... they aren't smiling and getting goosebumps simply because of the sound. Vast majority of the reviewers, journalists and "experts" are Ex-Racers... Its the theater and experience of how the power comes in. of course N/A Carrera even in its moved evolved form in the .1 GTS doesn't share much with the GT3 engine, but revving all the way to 7800 redline, its surely very reminiscent.
We live in a world where a VW Gold R with a tune will make an N/A car look slow... Base BMW and Mercs with OFT Tunes can rip through a 1/4 mile. But if thats any measure of fun, enjoyment and visceral experience, we have already lost the point

If you are an old school enthusiasts, nothing will ever be the same as a high output (More than 100 HP per liter) N/A engine... want to keep up with the joneses, want to constantly weigh dollar per HP gains, worried about 1/4 miles times, red light Grand Prix on streets, worry about your Six figure car being slower in straight line than other cars.. Save yourself some time and get a .2

Martin S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage

For me based on experience:

1. Don’t discount a 981 Cayman S or GTS. Fantastic platforms with amazing shifting feel and the best exhaust note in the business (with a SOUL muffler).

At last, a post I can respond to based on recent personal experience, NOT speculation. In the last 2 1/2 years I have owned:

• 2015 GTS, PDK & Sport Chrono, tracked it quite a bit, (Sold): Very sporty, easy to drive at the track, but a little too small, and the car in Sport + wanted to go to to at least 6,000 RPM, regardless of throttje pressure.
• 2013 Carrera S, PDK & Sport Chrono, (Traded in on the GTS): The PCNA Stop Sell order denied me the opportunity for a PDK, noting, I loved this car.I only traded it in because in my heart I had a secret longing to a 991.1 HYS with aero, or a 991.2 GTS. I had missed out on a 991.1 GTS as the price I could get for my 2004 GT3, about $75,000 at that time, wasn't adequated to finance a 991.1 GTS, going for about $90,000 + 7.75% sales tax...this was in 2018. Wifey was going crazy with my car spending...over $10,000 getting the GT3 ready for the track.
• 2017 Carrera GTS (Lives in my garage). The most in inredible car I have ever driven. I am a stealth guy, so I don't want intense engine noise on the street. Once off my block, I always drive the Sport Chrono in Sport, with the Sport Exhause on. The Sport + mode in a 3.0 twin turbo high torque car, needs to be experienced to be appreciated.

Knowing what I know now, were I shopping for a 991 911 car, I'd be perfectly happy with:

• 991.2 Base model with PDK and Sport Exhaust, most affordable of the bunch specified below, and 370 HP and monster torque,
• 991.2 Carrera S, 420 HP, potentially optioned with FAL and rear axle steering,
• 2017 - 2019 Carrera GTS, also look for Friont Axle Lift (FLA) and rear wheel steering with all the other desirable options, most of which will be on the car..
• Just to throw some variety into the list, consider a early 2000s 911 Turbo S (It must be the S, few of them made, worth the wait), these cars are the performance bargain of the century. I would have bought one but wanted a later model 991.2 car with all the ammenities listed below.

My 2017 Carrera GTS has Lane Control Alert (LCA), Back Up camera and sensors, Porsche Communications Management (PCM) audio that supports Appla Play allowing me to have WAZE on my navigation screen, play musiic off my iPhone, etc. Yes, these are niceties, non essential, but they make driving so much more pleasant. FAL would have been nice as well as Rear Axle Steeting, but they hadn't been installed on my 2017 GTS as I bought it used, all the other ammenities mentioned above were incuded which is typical on a 991.2 GTS also most likely coming with Sport Exhaust, Sport PASM, Sport Chrono, ventilated seats, 14, maybe even 18 way power seats, cruise control, Sport Suspension, 20mm lower than the Carrera S. Expect to pay from $125,000 $160,000 for a 2017 to 2019 Carrera GTS....It't ain't cheap, but oh lawdy, what a car, maybe the best street/track Porsche ever produced, providing the biggest bang for your buck.....but if this is too expensive, a 991.2 Base will do the trick.

barncobob

991.2 S with Cobb tune and stock PSE hits all my buttons..

koala

Based on the cars you've owned, the 991.1 GTS is going to be a great experience. I'd argue that you could also find a great deal of enjoyment from a 981 Cayman GTS as well.

I specifically wanted a 991.1 GTS, but up here in Canada, they rarely come available, and then when they do, they're almost always a PDK. I "settled" for an S as it ticked nearly all the boxes for me.

NewTX911

Thank you all for the thoughtful perspectives. My biggest internal debate thus far is:
1. With the Gen 2 NSX in the stable - a 991.1 RWD GTS manual seems like a very nice complement to that, vs.
2. 991.1 RWD GTS prices seem to be on par with 991.2 GTSs - why not just go with newer/more technology in the .2 (but then is it different enough from the Gen 2 NSX - I'm going in circles now)

My target budget is $100K-$120K - so perhaps in the end that'll help dictate and match against what's available in the market. I expect to drive this a fair amount to haul the kids around. The good news is that this seems like a good "problem" to have (can't go wrong with either a .1 or .2). Appreciate the continued thoughts...

Zylinderkopfdichtung

I’m a big advocate of dissimilarity in one’s garage. With your interest in natural aspiration and manual transmissions, and the fact that you have a back engine car already, I really think you should consider a Shelby GT350R. You can get a creampuff for a fair but less than your budget, even a last model year 2020 Heritage Edition if the look floats your boat. At least drive one and decide if it speaks to you or not.

GT350Rs don’t have back seats, but I just so happen to have a GT350R rear seat kit sitting unused in my basement!