Keadog

I have searched and read multiple threads here and elsewhere online but would like to tie things together in one place if anyone is interested in contributing. I have found the topic to be confusing with the disparate information on the web.

So, with my base C4 cab on 19" wheels (I have two sets, OEM with Sottozeros and Finspeed Spyders with summer tires), what aftermarket rotors, pads and/or calipers will fit and what combos should be considered for 99% street driving?
My goal is to reduce the brake dust seen with the OEM pads without sacrificing performance. I hope to do a couple of DEs per year once and if things ever go back to normal. In the slow groups.

I'm interested in options for rotors, pads (and fluids) +/- calipers without going to 20" wheels. For my type of driving and skill level, the OEM set up is more than adequate but the dust is too much on the black wheels. Also, I'm bored and running out of things to do to the car, but like it enough I don't want to trade it in or sell yet.

My order of preference in order of increasing involvement:

1. Better (less dust, at least as good) pads.
2. What brake fluid to use (2 year mark in March).
3. Replacement rotor type/make and sizes that will fit.
4. Calipers that will fit.

Thanks.

Norge911

Any 350mm set up will work.

if you are doing rotor upgrade only from 330 to 350, GiroDisc makes a special design for the base.

if you are changing rotor and caliper, look for used S set on eBay, (can even get 991.1 set if changed together) or aftermarket there are AP, GiroDisc, StopTech, etc

Keadog

Thanks. I thought the S (red) brakes required 20" wheels for clearance. No?
And the pad selections seem at least as confusing to me!

LWG

You can run 19" wheels with the red calipers and up to 350mm rotor setup. The carbon ceramic brakes (yellow calipers) with 380mm can only accommodate 20" wheels.

Keadog

It looks like they only make rotors for the front. Am I reading that incorrectly? Or can they go on the back as well?

Norge911

The GiroDisc 350mm, they have a set which is for both front and rear. Call them to ensure you get the Base 330 to 350 upgrade. The hat offset are different between rear and front.
then get Tarett brake caliper stud kit, brake line stud kit and Spiegler stainless brake line upgrade kit.


if you go with caliper and rotors for a 6 piston front set, both AP and GiroDisc makes nice sets as well as StopTech.

JRitt@essex

Pads
As you note, pads are going to be the greatest contributor to brake dust. As an FYI, the pads aren't creating all the brake dust. It's the brake pads scraping on the brake discs that create the dust. A large portion of the dust you see is the actual disc material, not just the pad material.

You're going to have a difficult time getting tremendous performance out of pads that are advertised as 'ceramic' or 'low dust'. The reason for that is that they aren't as abrasive as semi-metallic pads. That means they aren't scraping the discs as aggressively. "Low dust' pads tend to feel a bit wooden or sloppy, and you have to press harder on the brake pedal to get the response you desire. The upside is that they don't tear the discs up as much, and they tend not to make much noise. Again though, it's about tradeoffs. If you're looking for pure performance and superior feel, you're not going to get that with a low dust economy pad.

The best sport brake pad we (Essex) offer is the Ferodo DS2500. It is a fantastic compound that works well under a very wide range of conditions. It has great feel at all temperatures, low noise, and works well even under aggressive driving. They are not low dust however. They are going to feel and perform better than every low dust pad you find however. We currently don't have the proper pad shapes for the base 991.2 calipers, but we are working on it.

Fluid
Fluid- Any decent performance brake fluid is going to be fine for street driving. On the street you're never going to boil the fluid unless you are doing something absolutely crazy. We'd recommend something like AP Racing DOT 5.1, which is $12.95/bottle. Three bottles would be ample to bleed the system. https://www.essexparts.com/brake-flu...al-brake-fluid

Discs
Discs aren't going to contribute much to street performance. A nice two-piece disc like our AP Racing J Hook Discs will shave some unsprung weight, but their primary benefit comes into play on the racetrack. That benefit is that they run far cooler and last longer than stock under track use. That is a result of their metallurgy, their internal vane design, wall thickness, J Hook slot patter, and their ability to float. They won't cone and distort when they get extremely hot, and therefore won't be as stressed as a non-floating disc. We offer front and rear 350mm 2-piece AP Racing J Hook Discs, which we have had someone install on a base 991.2. That is larger than the stock 330mm/330mm front and rear discs. If our AP Racing discs run with stock pads on the rear of the car, there is a small unswept ring around the inside of disc near the hat. We believe one can run a Ferodo pad from the 991.2 S in the rear however, which has a taller depth and will cover more of the disc/eliminate a good portion of the unswept ring. We are working on verifying that info.

You don't want try and go larger than 350mm on the discs if you're sticking with your OEM calipers for several reasons. Specific pads, calipers, and discs are designed to work together harmoniously on the car. The physical shape of those components must be compatible, or they aren't going to function properly, and they certainly won't improve brake performance. Going to much larger discs vs. stock without altering the piston sizes also creates the risk of fouling up your brake bias/balance, causing ABS issues, etc. If you want to go bigger for performance reasons or simply aesthetics, you need to make sure you have the proper calipers to mate to larger discs.

Calipers
As noted above, you don't want to slap a mish-mash of parts on the car that weren't designed to work together properly. Doing so is going to hurt brake performance, not help it.
We offer a couple different complete brake kits that include all brake components at the wheel end: Calipers, discs, lines, pads. We currently have only fit them to a 991.2 S or GTS, but we will be test fitting them on a Base 991.2 very soon. We believe they will fit with no issues. We have already run our front and rear AP Racing by Essex Road and Competition Radi-CAL Brake Kits on a 700+ horsepower 991.2 Carrera T with great success. We just posted about this on our Essex Blog the other day. The owner has been thrilled with the performance. Check out this link to see his review after pounding them on the street and running them on the track: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...tion-brake-kit

If you want a properly designed, complete system that will fill up your wheels, take any abuse you can throw at them, and look the business, our Radi-CAL Brake Kits are the way to go. Again though, they aren't going to bring you a ton of performance on the street. Big brake kits are specifically designed to contend with heat, and the OEM brakes are typically enough to handle the heat generated on the street with a good set of performance pads installed.

You can see our complete menu of brake upgrades from AP Racing and Ferodo for the Carrera T here: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...0T/Iron%20disc
Again, we are currently working on test-fitting these on the base cars.


The Essex Brake Upgrade Guide
Below is a video we shot on brake upgrades. It talks about the different levels of upgrade and what they bring to the table. I believe this will provide a good understanding of what each upgrade in the chain is designed to accomplish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Mz...ature=youtu.be


We have a huge following of our Competition Kits on the 991 GT3/RS. You can see a monster thread with tons of owner feedback and photos here on Rennlist: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t-finally.html

Here are a few pics of our brake components on various 991 cars:













Our 2-piece discs in action


Here's a 992 C4S Targa with our Road Kit:





A nice GT2RS with our 2-piece J Hook Discs replacing his PCCB:

Keadog

Very informative! Thanks!
I have been to your site and read some of the above already. It seems that OEM is going to remain fine for my mainly GT-style driving since I have the smaller brakes and 19" wheels. And the dust will continue to annoy me.
But those J hook rotors look very cool!

JRitt@essex

No worries, and thanks for the kind words. Yes, for touring, your greatest performance gain will be from a set of pads in the style you desire (in this case low dust). In your situation, discs, complete brake kits, etc. would be primarily for aesthetics (which is just as important to some people). It just depends on what you're after with your car, and everyone is different. Thanks again!