Can 911s or any ICE “collectibles” maintain value?
02-05-2021, 11:15 AM
#61
Personally, I think the concern that EV's will erode the long term value of a "classic" 991 is way overblown. Even here in the People Republic of California, it's a recommendation that "new" ICE vehicle sales should stop by 2035 not a law. That means a minimum of 15 years of letting the market determine what normal is ,but the key is gas stations will exist just like they do now. Also, if you own a 991 for the long term, it's days as your daily driver will have passed and she will have become your weekend garage queen. Your daily driver will be a hybrid or full EV. The other issue is we are talking Porsche's here not a produced for the mass's product like a Honda Civic.
Porsche as a company has done a masterful job of building brand loyalty across generations of owners. I attended the last Rennsport at Laguna Seca for Porsches 75th anniversary. It was amazing to see thousands of Porsches dating from the late 50's to the most current models. It's celebration of the Porsche brand no matter if it's a 60 year old Porsche, a Porsche tractor or the latest model. Today's Porsche will become someone's collectable even as Porsche moves towards a full EV future. Also, do not underestimate the value of owning something that is different from everybody's normal. At multiple local Porsche events, my 72 Targa will draw more people to start conversations than the guys with 991's. The conversation usually revolves around I used to own a Porsche in the 80's or 90's and sold it. Wish I had not done that.
I predict in 20 years from now the owners of 991's will have that same conversation regarding how their car has a personality and needs to be driven by a human vs. the soulless drone of an EV that drives them to work in 2040.
Porsche as a company has done a masterful job of building brand loyalty across generations of owners. I attended the last Rennsport at Laguna Seca for Porsches 75th anniversary. It was amazing to see thousands of Porsches dating from the late 50's to the most current models. It's celebration of the Porsche brand no matter if it's a 60 year old Porsche, a Porsche tractor or the latest model. Today's Porsche will become someone's collectable even as Porsche moves towards a full EV future. Also, do not underestimate the value of owning something that is different from everybody's normal. At multiple local Porsche events, my 72 Targa will draw more people to start conversations than the guys with 991's. The conversation usually revolves around I used to own a Porsche in the 80's or 90's and sold it. Wish I had not done that.
I predict in 20 years from now the owners of 991's will have that same conversation regarding how their car has a personality and needs to be driven by a human vs. the soulless drone of an EV that drives them to work in 2040.
02-05-2021, 01:23 PM
#62
I own P-cars and daily drive a Tesla Model 3. Doing the math for solar installation with my S. Florida home energy needs it doesn't make financial sense. I would take ~20+ years to pay off that I may not be living there anymore. FWIW: Model 3 is plugged in whenever in the garage and I exclusively charge off-peak hours. (10pm-6am) My electric bill has not gone up drastically.
I check my electric bill monthly and compared every month including pre-Tesla ownership. It's pennies per month. (~$0.75)
I check my electric bill monthly and compared every month including pre-Tesla ownership. It's pennies per month. (~$0.75)
Last edited by My991; 02-05-2021 at 01:24 PM.
02-05-2021, 01:29 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
All panels here made in the USA, installers drove a nice truck and the team that showed up to help with the panels arrived in 2-3 surprisingly nice personal cars for a bunch of younger guys. All polite and professional, and seemed happy in their work. Felt like an alternate universe, and the workmanship was excellent. Battery installed in one day. Rooftop installed in one day. Then they asked if I had some spare paint in our home's color to touch things up. Figured I was going to have to do some touch-up to meet my standards, as that's what I've come to expect with so many utilities and contractors. Nope—that, too, was beautiful work.
Company has been around for 30~ years. One sales visit, some email vollleys, two quick visits for prep, two days to install, and two quick visits for followup. This is how things should be. I almost couldn't believe it. The only fly in the ointment has—predictably—been PG&E. All county inspections passed months ago. PTO from PG&E (Permission to Operate/get off our grid and billing) is 3-4 months and counting. Nothing we or the solar company can do about it. Solar company started rebating to cover the double utility bill while PG&E stalls.
I should say: I am a former solar skeptic.
My view now: We should be manufacturing solar throughout the U.S. for the west, southwest, and other regions where it makes sense. Would be a very good start, and put a lot of people to work. Might also encourage a cottage industry to maintain the systems and supply parts, etc. We should also be working towards micro-grids wherever they make sense. Would make us more resilient against natural disasters, and business disruption too. It may not be a solution for high-rises and cold climates with long winters, but there are a lot of suburbs and a lot of commercial buildings with large, unused rooftops. Not to mention vast landscapes that, while pretty, do very little for our citizens.
Company has been around for 30~ years. One sales visit, some email vollleys, two quick visits for prep, two days to install, and two quick visits for followup. This is how things should be. I almost couldn't believe it. The only fly in the ointment has—predictably—been PG&E. All county inspections passed months ago. PTO from PG&E (Permission to Operate/get off our grid and billing) is 3-4 months and counting. Nothing we or the solar company can do about it. Solar company started rebating to cover the double utility bill while PG&E stalls.
I should say: I am a former solar skeptic.
My view now: We should be manufacturing solar throughout the U.S. for the west, southwest, and other regions where it makes sense. Would be a very good start, and put a lot of people to work. Might also encourage a cottage industry to maintain the systems and supply parts, etc. We should also be working towards micro-grids wherever they make sense. Would make us more resilient against natural disasters, and business disruption too. It may not be a solution for high-rises and cold climates with long winters, but there are a lot of suburbs and a lot of commercial buildings with large, unused rooftops. Not to mention vast landscapes that, while pretty, do very little for our citizens.
Last edited by stout; 02-05-2021 at 01:38 PM.
02-05-2021, 01:34 PM
#64
A lot of variables, but in my case:
Just added solar to our roof. Bought it and financed it over 10 years. System build to 112% of our use worked out to $11 more a month than our average PG&E bill at 2020 rates, which are sure to go up—particularly over 10 years. Thereafter, we don't have an electricity bill on a system with a 25-year warranty and a 35-40 year service life—and there's a decent shot our solar will offset some of our natural gas bill. A primary driver for us was no more dependency on PG&E, and so we added a home battery as well—a safeguard for an 88yo in our home as well as our business.
Just added solar to our roof. Bought it and financed it over 10 years. System build to 112% of our use worked out to $11 more a month than our average PG&E bill at 2020 rates, which are sure to go up—particularly over 10 years. Thereafter, we don't have an electricity bill on a system with a 25-year warranty and a 35-40 year service life—and there's a decent shot our solar will offset some of our natural gas bill. A primary driver for us was no more dependency on PG&E, and so we added a home battery as well—a safeguard for an 88yo in our home as well as our business.
02-05-2021, 01:41 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
That is my understanding. I am sure there's some fine print that I missed or missed a possible interpretation of, but that goes for many, many things.
When I asked what the expected service life is, with good efficiency, sounded like 30 years is the stock answer but could be 35-40. Panels now are apparently a fair bit better than panels of old—many of which are just coming into the end of their service life now. But I wouldn't want to be in the business of predicting 2060 efficiency with 2020 customers either.
When I asked what the expected service life is, with good efficiency, sounded like 30 years is the stock answer but could be 35-40. Panels now are apparently a fair bit better than panels of old—many of which are just coming into the end of their service life now. But I wouldn't want to be in the business of predicting 2060 efficiency with 2020 customers either.
02-05-2021, 01:44 PM
#66
RL Community Team
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$.75 does not sound quite right. We don’t have special rates for off hours services where I live in SWFL with FPL, I’m guessing the electric would be substantially higher. The neighbor I mentioned was adding more solar panels (Thank You China) because the Tesla was costly. There is also a tax deduction of ~25% (that is dropping yearly) for adding these panels from China. I expect the deductions will change and there will be larger deductions over the next 4 years. 😉
02-05-2021, 02:12 PM
#67
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Let's not forget a history many people find so appealing -"One common and prominent thread for the two brands is the name Carrera—referring to TAG Heuer’s flagship model and Porsche’s base model in the mythical 911 family. In Spanish, the word carrera means race and career, but in this case, it refers to the Carrera Panamericana race in Mexico. The border to border, open-road rally ran annually from 1950 to 1954 and was considered one of the most dangerous in racing history.
Porsche was founded in 1948 by Ferdinand “Ferry” Porsche, son of Ferdinand Porsche, who had established an independent design and engineering studio in 1931 and designed the Volkswagen Beetle in 1938.
They set up shop to build high-performance sports cars and race cars in a garage in Gmund, Austria, and later moved to Germany. A class win in 1954’s Carrera Panamericana race was a claim to fame that led the brand to dub its top-performance 100-hp road car Carrera in 1956. In the 1980s, the Carrera name was repurposed for the 911."
02-05-2021, 05:01 PM
#68
Originally Posted by stout;[url=tel:17212976
17212976[/url]]All panels here made in the USA, installers drove a nice truck and the team that showed up to help with the panels arrived in 2-3 surprisingly nice personal cars for a bunch of younger guys. All polite and professional, and seemed happy in their work. Felt like an alternate universe, and the workmanship was excellent. Battery installed in one day. Rooftop installed in one day. Then they asked if I had some spare paint in our home's color to touch things up. Figured I was going to have to do some touch-up to meet my standards, as that's what I've come to expect with so many utilities and contractors. Nope—that, too, was beautiful work.
Company has been around for 30~ years. One sales visit, some email vollleys, two quick visits for prep, two days to install, and two quick visits for followup. This is how things should be. I almost couldn't believe it. The only fly in the ointment has—predictably—been PG&E. All county inspections passed months ago. PTO from PG&E (Permission to Operate/get off our grid and billing) is 3-4 months and counting. Nothing we or the solar company can do about it. Solar company started rebating to cover the double utility bill while PG&E stalls.
I should say: I am a former solar skeptic.
My view now: We should be manufacturing solar throughout the U.S. for the west, southwest, and other regions where it makes sense. Would be a very good start, and put a lot of people to work. Might also encourage a cottage industry to maintain the systems and supply parts, etc. We should also be working towards micro-grids wherever they make sense. Would make us more resilient against natural disasters, and business disruption too. It may not be a solution for high-rises and cold climates with long winters, but there are a lot of suburbs and a lot of commercial buildings with large, unused rooftops. Not to mention vast landscapes that, while pretty, do very little for our citizens.
Company has been around for 30~ years. One sales visit, some email vollleys, two quick visits for prep, two days to install, and two quick visits for followup. This is how things should be. I almost couldn't believe it. The only fly in the ointment has—predictably—been PG&E. All county inspections passed months ago. PTO from PG&E (Permission to Operate/get off our grid and billing) is 3-4 months and counting. Nothing we or the solar company can do about it. Solar company started rebating to cover the double utility bill while PG&E stalls.
I should say: I am a former solar skeptic.
My view now: We should be manufacturing solar throughout the U.S. for the west, southwest, and other regions where it makes sense. Would be a very good start, and put a lot of people to work. Might also encourage a cottage industry to maintain the systems and supply parts, etc. We should also be working towards micro-grids wherever they make sense. Would make us more resilient against natural disasters, and business disruption too. It may not be a solution for high-rises and cold climates with long winters, but there are a lot of suburbs and a lot of commercial buildings with large, unused rooftops. Not to mention vast landscapes that, while pretty, do very little for our citizens.
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/be...-manufacturers
02-05-2021, 05:50 PM
#69
Instructor
Gasoline-powered passenger cars and trucks powered by fossil fuels are the focus.
Trust me, alternative liquid fuel for internal combustion engines along with conversion kits if needed are coming.
Not only that, I am near certain that there will be exception clauses that say if the car is older than x, or used less than y miles per year, the car is exempt
Fuel costs will be in the sky anyway, so no one is going to be able to drive their 30 mile daily commute in an ICE car anyway.
Once fuel costs rise to a point where it is unbearable. Another "cash for clunkers" program will come out to clean up old cars on the road.
All of this also assumes the world does not wake up and see that even if cars can be charged every night at home in the suburbs where home garages are plentiful. Every home pulling an additional 50 amps for 10 hours a day is not going to be great for the grid.
Trust me, alternative liquid fuel for internal combustion engines along with conversion kits if needed are coming.
Not only that, I am near certain that there will be exception clauses that say if the car is older than x, or used less than y miles per year, the car is exempt
Fuel costs will be in the sky anyway, so no one is going to be able to drive their 30 mile daily commute in an ICE car anyway.
Once fuel costs rise to a point where it is unbearable. Another "cash for clunkers" program will come out to clean up old cars on the road.
All of this also assumes the world does not wake up and see that even if cars can be charged every night at home in the suburbs where home garages are plentiful. Every home pulling an additional 50 amps for 10 hours a day is not going to be great for the grid.
02-05-2021, 06:15 PM
#71
Instructor
02-05-2021, 07:17 PM
#73
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