Gaat99

Hello everyone. I negotiated a price with a Porsche dealer for a 2014 991.1 c2s with 40k miles that had recently taken on trade in. It hadn't been reconditioned by the dealer at the time so my purchase was supposed to be pending their inspection and reconditioning. I also have a PPI scheduled for Monday.

The salesman sent a report yesterday that basically says performed preowned checklist and multipoint inspection without showing actual checklist. The items specifically detailed were: tire life (9/32" on f/r), brake life (7mm fronts, 5 mm rears), battery test failed, and that both door panels are starting to lift. It also says fluids topped off. It did not mention how they are addressing anything or if any routine maintenance services were performed.

Being that this is a Porsche from a dealer and not a used civic, I kind of expected more documentation and seeing the actual checklist. I would expect any 40k and 6 year service items like spark plug/drive belt replacement to be performed if not already documented recently (carfax showed dealer maintained with last service a year ago, 30k mile service). A different dealer told me that if brake pads are 50% or more worn on a used car, they would replace them. That seems to apply for the rears here, but no mention of replacement. I would also expect the door panel issue to be addressed since this is out of warranty and not CPO.

I asked the salesman if any services are being performed and how issues are being addressed, currently waiting for a reply. Since i've never spent this much on a used car before, are these reasonable expectations? In my mind they would be. Curious what others think in case I have to walk if any of these are not done.

Thanks for taking a look!

Rich_Jenkins

It wasn't clear from your post: have you actually seen this car? I think most of the items you mentioned are part of your price negotiations, aside from "battery test failed", but even then, it's a 6 year old car. I'd not be surprised it needed a battery. Budget for me would be $225 for a new AGM from Batteries plus, with a minimal DIY job to swap it out. Dealer retail cost could be $500-$600 installed, but that's a guess, as I don't buy batteries at the dealer.

9/32" tread depth is about 7mm, so you should be good there for a while. Door panels "lifting" are indeed a concern, depending. It's an issue. I've not experienced it with either my 981S or current 991.2. But then again I have a CPO on my 911 until 2021, so I'm covered. I do not know what an estimate for addressing panels is.

I would not expect anything to be "done" to a trade-in car. It's a used car. The dealer is looking to make maximum profit with minimum effort. You indicated it's an out of warranty vehicle, not CPO. So, no 111 point CPO checklist, no effort needed to recondition anything, except to make it roadworthy.

The 40K service might be something they want you to cover, so, again, a negotiating item. I haven't looked at the 40K service menu but gotta be low four figures at the dealer. $2.5K? Just a guess. Same on pads. Of course if the rotors are underspec, you're going to have to address those at the time of pad replacement.

The market for used 991s is pretty hot, so they may simply ignore your expectations and ask you to move out of the way for the next buyer. It sounds in this case like the previous owner got to 40K, and decided to dump the car before he had to put a lot of money into the car himself.

What price did you offer?

Joec500

Yah the price will be the biggest factor here. But 991.1's are pretty hot on the used market right now so if it's a decent spec I am sure it would go quickly.

Changing the brakes and 40k service are definitely easy DIY things and would run about $800 in parts/oil etc. Maybe 3-4 hours of your time if you are relatively handy. 40K service is oil change, air filter and spark plugs.

If done by a quality independent shop, my guess is it would around $2000 parts and labor for one axle of brakes and rotors and 40k service, so factor that into your price.

The door panel lifting is sort of a pain to deal with, again if you are handy with glue and clamps you can easily remove the door cards and perform that repair, also any auto upholstery shop could repair this. My guess is it would $500 or so.

If you can get the car with around $3,000 baked in discount this could be a good car with the issues you described.

Gaat99

I did see the car. Cosmetically speaking, it's in great condition (minus the door panels, which I admittedly did not look at very closely at the time).

The salesman said they'd inspect "everything" and gave me the impression that if anything wasn't working or not up to spec they'd take care of it. Also said when they sell a used car, you wouldn't have to do anything for a year. I would assume that is talking about yearly maintenance. I'm not so crazy as to expect them to preemptively fix things that break over the year so what else would he be talking about.

I'm pretty sure i'm overpaying given the mileage, but I was ok with that given the market and how great the spec is. I'm just not that excited by the prospect of having to pay $2500 for maintenance and $4000+ for replacement door panels on a car I just overpaid for if that makes sense.

Joec500

yah you def don't need to replace the door panels, they can easily be repaired. It's just the glue they use breaksdown over time. Probably with heat from the sun etc. A good auto upholster can repair these, you just might be out of your car for 1-2 days. Maybe you can ask the dealer which upholster they use and get that sorted out for you. Even if you get new door cards, you will have the same separation issue in 3-4 years so you might as well get a quality repair.

991.1GTS

I totally agree with Rich on this. It is a used car with no warranty so everything is a negotiation. It has defects that need to be addressed, do you pay for those or do they - hopefully you can meet on middle ground and do the deal.
To answer your question, I think your expectations are too high for a non CPO car.

Bxstr

As others have mentioned, I would not expect them to put a lot of money into the car. That will come in with the negotiations. I would personally let them do the door panel, I would probably replace the battery myself for way less. Just be sure that you inspect the car yourself even more thoroughly than you initially did and get a PPI.

Gaat99

To be fair, during price negotiations when I explicitly asked about walking into a $2000 routine maintenance bill, he was the one that said the dealers policy is to have everything good to go for the year. He was also the one who said multiple times they inspect “everything” for defects, including the interior. That seems pretty misleading if they aren’t going to do anything about it. The PPI is scheduled for Monday so we’ll see what else gets found.

Everything definitely is negotiable if you’re willing to walk. It’s a matter of how much that is worth. Thank you all! I appreciate everyone’s input.

Rich_Jenkins

Unless you get this in writing, on a document signed by the dealer principle on the form entitled "WE OWE", it's worthless BS to make you buy the car. It's a used car. I am sure somewhere on the retail contract it says "as is".

Good luck with the PPI. If you like the car, and can put up with the deal (whatever it is you negotiated), buy it. A '14 911 S is a stonking car, and will put a smile on your face every time you drive it.

Penn4S

First you didn't mention what the sale price is so it's a little difficult to determine how much wiggle room there is.
Look at all the service history as their are milestones for certain high cost service items, brake flush, drive belt, plugs, etc........ Make sure all service is done based on age not just mileage.
Can they CPO the car? It might cost you a bit more but the peace of mind is priceless. If the CPO they will have to make sure tires are at a certain level.
991's are rock solid until they aren't. Do the leg work don't be anxious.

Joec500

I think CPO adds 3-5k to the car...Def worth it for piece of mind on maintenance and any small issues.

Gaat99

Sorry, thought I mentioned price above. It is $78k. 2014 c2s with 40,000 miles. Manual, chrono, spasm, pse, premium package plus, 18 way seats, burm audio. Black/black.

Prior service was all done by dealer. Car fax shows the last recorded service as the 30k mile one done a year ago.

Joec500

god damn these cars in manual are holding their value. I bought my similar MSRP manual car 5 years ago with CPO 20k miles for $80k in LA.

Gaat99

Well that makes me feel terrible lol

Gaat99

Did you really get a one year old 2014 c2s in 2015 with a $123k msrp (it as carbon trim and some other smaller stuff that added up) for $80k? That actually makes me rethink buying now x.x