Carlos Moro

I had a track day in PIR yesterday and got some blisters in my front-left tire. These tires are definitely not new (~5k miles) but they still have some thread left. This is not my first track day with these tires, but it's the first time they show this kind of damage. I was using the same cold tire pressures I've been using in other track days (31 front / 36 back). They got to about 36 front / 42 back during the day, which I consider normal. Not sure if lower (or higher?) tire pressures could prevent this. PIR has a pretty rough pavement and it's clockwise so the front left takes a lot of beating, especially in turn 4 and 5.

Anyways, it's about time to replace them but I was wondering if anyone experienced something similar. I don't think I'm going with P-Zeros again. I thought about getting a track focused tire, but then you sacrifice on comfort and I only track a few times per year. Maybe I'm looking for a unicorn, but I need a tire that is somewhat comfortable for the road, but can take some beating on the eventual track day. I thought the P-Zeros were this tire, but not anymore. I'm leaning towards Pilot Sport 4S. Anyone disagrees?

drcollie

You're overdriving your tires, that's normal when you are pushing a street tire very hard on the track. All brands will do it.

The optimum tire to run on the track is a shaved R-Compound tire, that's right - you shave a brand new tire down (Tire Rack will do it for you) because it means less heat in the tire and the tread won't chunk. But you can't drive these on the street.

What to do? Well, get a second set of wheels and new street tires of your choice, the Michelins are good. Then use those old ones you now have for track days until they cord out. Yes, you have to do wheel swaps the night before, but that's a fairly cheap way to do it. However, you appear to be going fast enough that you would really benefit from a dedicated track tire, the grip and stopping power is easily 30% more than any street tire. They will even cut your braking distance into the corners by 20 to 30%. Big fun. But dedicated track tires wear out on heat cycles, so you don't want to drive them to the track, plus they eat nails like nobody's business. So now you have to carry them on a trailer to the track and change there.

There is no unicorn tire. you have to pay to play.

Bob Z.

I say try the PS4 or maybe the Cups.

arter

Since you get at lot of rainy days up there you would probably like the PS4s better than the cups for everyday driving.
Drcollie is right that a separate set of track tires is best if you are pushing your street tires hard on the track

97supratt

You don’t have much tread on those tires anyways. Attend two more events and replace. Your last event will be a bit more eventful to say the least

Carlos Moro

I just downloaded my dashcam footage and I think I was indeed overdriving these tires (maybe got a little too excited):
After the feedback from this thread I'm thinking another set of track focused tires (e.g. Cup 2) is the way to go. Otherwise I'll keep damaging my tires, unless I take it easy on the track which I'm not planning on it.

Sooner

+1 for the Michelin PS4S is you aren't going for a dedicated track tire & extra wheels. I have had several friends ruin PZero's out at PIR, the Michelin's definitely hold up better on track, and are great for daily driving all year (mostly) here in Portland. If you can swing the extra wheels & tires, go for the Pilot Sport Cups, I've run those on 911's out there for years (on a 993 & 997.2) & they're fantastic but I wouldn't want them on the street regularly other than summer. No track days for me this year unfortunately, but hope to see you out there next summer!

Explorer16

Nice to see folks from the pacific northwest on this site. I'm from the Vancouver (WA)

drcollie

Carlos, you are nice and smooth on the track, you have a good rhythm. You look a little timid on braking, but that's nothing a good Instructor couldn't help you with. More mash on the brakes, dive in deeper / harder. The true art of track driving is corner braking. I love having smooth drivers for students that don't jerk the cars around, guys like you are the best learners.

I don't hear the tires chirping in the videos, which is what I listen for in videos like yours so I don't think you are over-driving your tires based on that clip, but you appear to be right at that breakout stage where you will start going very fast and would really enjoy the added grip of R Compounds. Those of course require separate wheels and tires that go on at the track. so not as convenient. Once you run on real track tires, you almost never go back to squirmy and slow street tires.

Carlos Moro

This is great feedback. Thank you so much.

darylbowden

This is good feedback. I always say the hardest thing for people to understand is you're basically gonna have to do the opposite of what you learned in terms of street braking. Track - hard initial mash, progressively release, trail into corner. Street - soft initial push getting progressively harder. (obviously there are lots of types of corner, so some just require a brush of the brakes to settle the car, etc - i'm being general here)

Jeahbladejeah

Dang, is there a place I can go to get feedback on my driving, too?

barncobob

my wife will tell U how to drive

drcollie

If you have an option to go out solo or with an Instructor, always take the Instructor if you want to learn. The key of course, is to have an open mind and don't think you already have it all figured out. If doesn't take long to refine your course work skills. The hardest student to teach is the one who thinks he doesn't need an Instructor in the car. Boy, those guys are stubborn.

Then the trick is consistency. I'm a pretty fast and well-respected driver and can put down a perfect lap maybe every 7th or 8th lap. The difference between someone like me and a professional race car driver is they can put down a perfect lap every single one they do. Round and around and only a tenth of a second difference whereas I might be off one second this lap, half a second that lap, that sort of thing. If you guys ever get the opportunity to get a ride with a professional race car driver do it, even if you have to let them drive your car. You will be amazed at how fast they are and consistent, and relaxed. I learned more from Bill Auberlen (BMW Factory Race Car Driver) in 15 minutes at New Hampshire International Speedway than doing a hundred track days by myself. Most the pros are happy to take you out for a few hot laps, don't be afraid to ask. They started out just like you are now, and 90% of them are pretty good guys and easy-going.

Carlos Moro

Replaced the damaged P-Zeros with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s from Costco. Can't wait to try them at the track. The price difference between the Pilot Sport 4S and Cup 2 was about $100 for all 4 so it came down to comfort (4S) vs ultimate performance (Cup2) and I went for the latter. Costco's site doesn't say anything about tire certification and I was pleased that the fronts came as N0 (Porsche) and the rears came as K1 (Ferrari). It was already a good deal when I thought they were the "generic" Cup2s, so now that I actually got N0s and K1s I think this is a good deal.