Pros & Cons: C2S vs C4S vs Targa 4S vs Turbo
02-25-2020, 07:03 PM
#16
Advanced
Thread Starter
@BSO As nice as it would be to have the Turbo hp, I agree that any car in the range will provide ample power for my 95% street use I do like your opulent description for the TT though. RE sliding the tail, it would be fund to have a RWD once again, but that temptation might not be what I need. RE open top, I want to have some openness and would opt for a glass sunroof if I didn't get a Targa. Being in Chicago, it would be nice to pop the top for the 3 months of nice weather we actually get. I don't think I'll notice the weight of a sunroof or Traga top because I'm not a guy who's grown up throwing around Porsches or other sports cars.
@BobZ thanks for making a second pass at it. I agree that the coupe/Targa decision is at the top of the list along with RWD vs AWD. Question on your Targa rattles: have you posted elsewhere on the nature and fix of your rattles? If so, I'll look for those posts. If not, can you expand at all on where they were and how you fixed them? I've read some owners get noise at the bar/roof line where others get it in somewhere in the lift mechanism. RE the trans, as much fun as it would be to have a 7MT, I think it would get to be a pain for me in traffic. Plus, there are fewer MTs to choose from.
@Saffron I agree on the widebody and your buddy's buyer's remorse is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but with other factors being taken into consideration. If your budget would have allowed you to get a Turbo, would you have, or are there other reasons you would have stayed with the C4S?
@pmiddy Great to hear that the Targa has been quiet...that's a concern. It's also interesting to hear the comment about not really maximizing the Turbo's hp...as stated above, all of these cars are plenty powerful. It sounds like we have very similar priorities when it comes to a car. Are you diving the Targa GTS during the winter? Did you put snow tires on it or are you toughing it out with the summers and relying on the AWD? I appreciate the offer...I may PM you.
@MDelaney Thanks for sharing your thought/decision criteria. Fortunately(?) we're not into any activities where we'd need a roof rack, so that doesn't force my hand. I ski a couple of times per year but rent the equipment. As long as I can fit my golf bag in, I'm good. Like you, I also value modern niceties like Carplay so I have to go with a 2017 .2 or above (I'd rather not rip open the PCM and install the Carplay mod).
@BobZ thanks for making a second pass at it. I agree that the coupe/Targa decision is at the top of the list along with RWD vs AWD. Question on your Targa rattles: have you posted elsewhere on the nature and fix of your rattles? If so, I'll look for those posts. If not, can you expand at all on where they were and how you fixed them? I've read some owners get noise at the bar/roof line where others get it in somewhere in the lift mechanism. RE the trans, as much fun as it would be to have a 7MT, I think it would get to be a pain for me in traffic. Plus, there are fewer MTs to choose from.
@Saffron I agree on the widebody and your buddy's buyer's remorse is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but with other factors being taken into consideration. If your budget would have allowed you to get a Turbo, would you have, or are there other reasons you would have stayed with the C4S?
@pmiddy Great to hear that the Targa has been quiet...that's a concern. It's also interesting to hear the comment about not really maximizing the Turbo's hp...as stated above, all of these cars are plenty powerful. It sounds like we have very similar priorities when it comes to a car. Are you diving the Targa GTS during the winter? Did you put snow tires on it or are you toughing it out with the summers and relying on the AWD? I appreciate the offer...I may PM you.
@MDelaney Thanks for sharing your thought/decision criteria. Fortunately(?) we're not into any activities where we'd need a roof rack, so that doesn't force my hand. I ski a couple of times per year but rent the equipment. As long as I can fit my golf bag in, I'm good. Like you, I also value modern niceties like Carplay so I have to go with a 2017 .2 or above (I'd rather not rip open the PCM and install the Carplay mod).
02-25-2020, 07:16 PM
#17
Advanced
Thread Starter
Yeah, I've checked out Cobb tunes and a couple others. I'll have to see how whatever I buy feels and then weigh the gains vs any possible warranty issues. I will keep the car long enough that tuning it eventually should be an option, though.
02-25-2020, 07:20 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
When looking for my Porsche last year I considered a Turbo but hated the idea of AWD here in sunny CA and have always preferred RWD in general so I bought a RWD GTS without the added weight of a sunroof threw on some HF cats a Cobb tune and some BMC filters and loving every second I spend behind the wheel. The problem is it didn't stop at that, I ended up with HRE wheels, new PS4 tires, KW HAS Kit and full PPF as well as a few other minor goodies. Haven't dyno'd it but i'm pretty sure i'm pretty close to Turbo S power. Point is be careful of the mod bug as it could end up being very costly.
02-25-2020, 08:07 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
The key decision is whether you really need the AWD. Based on your year round usage and your bias to the wide-bodies on your list, AWD seems the better option.
I live in Chicago and have a C4S cab that never sees the winter. While I love the wide-body and those nice rockers, a C2S 991 looks just as good with its clean lines. Its a much better value as well. There are times I miss my old 997 RWD.
The Targa is clearly the best looking 991 hands down (save maybe a GT3). I'd personally pass on the Targa, given the extra weight, and its compromise in neither being a hardtop or an open air cab. If I was thinking Turbo money, I'd just get a 992.
Good luck.
I live in Chicago and have a C4S cab that never sees the winter. While I love the wide-body and those nice rockers, a C2S 991 looks just as good with its clean lines. Its a much better value as well. There are times I miss my old 997 RWD.
The Targa is clearly the best looking 991 hands down (save maybe a GT3). I'd personally pass on the Targa, given the extra weight, and its compromise in neither being a hardtop or an open air cab. If I was thinking Turbo money, I'd just get a 992.
Good luck.
02-25-2020, 08:30 PM
#21
@BSO As nice as it would be to have the Turbo hp, I agree that any car in the range will provide ample power for my 95% street use I do like your opulent description for the TT though. RE sliding the tail, it would be fund to have a RWD once again, but that temptation might not be what I need. RE open top, I want to have some openness and would opt for a glass sunroof if I didn't get a Targa. Being in Chicago, it would be nice to pop the top for the 3 months of nice weather we actually get. I don't think I'll notice the weight of a sunroof or Traga top because I'm not a guy who's grown up throwing around Porsches or other sports cars.
@BobZ thanks for making a second pass at it. I agree that the coupe/Targa decision is at the top of the list along with RWD vs AWD. Question on your Targa rattles: have you posted elsewhere on the nature and fix of your rattles? If so, I'll look for those posts. If not, can you expand at all on where they were and how you fixed them? I've read some owners get noise at the bar/roof line where others get it in somewhere in the lift mechanism. RE the trans, as much fun as it would be to have a 7MT, I think it would get to be a pain for me in traffic. Plus, there are fewer MTs to choose from.
@Saffron I agree on the widebody and your buddy's buyer's remorse is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but with other factors being taken into consideration. If your budget would have allowed you to get a Turbo, would you have, or are there other reasons you would have stayed with the C4S?
@pmiddy Great to hear that the Targa has been quiet...that's a concern. It's also interesting to hear the comment about not really maximizing the Turbo's hp...as stated above, all of these cars are plenty powerful. It sounds like we have very similar priorities when it comes to a car. Are you diving the Targa GTS during the winter? Did you put snow tires on it or are you toughing it out with the summers and relying on the AWD? I appreciate the offer...I may PM you.
@MDelaney Thanks for sharing your thought/decision criteria. Fortunately(?) we're not into any activities where we'd need a roof rack, so that doesn't force my hand. I ski a couple of times per year but rent the equipment. As long as I can fit my golf bag in, I'm good. Like you, I also value modern niceties like Carplay so I have to go with a 2017 .2 or above (I'd rather not rip open the PCM and install the Carplay mod).
@BobZ thanks for making a second pass at it. I agree that the coupe/Targa decision is at the top of the list along with RWD vs AWD. Question on your Targa rattles: have you posted elsewhere on the nature and fix of your rattles? If so, I'll look for those posts. If not, can you expand at all on where they were and how you fixed them? I've read some owners get noise at the bar/roof line where others get it in somewhere in the lift mechanism. RE the trans, as much fun as it would be to have a 7MT, I think it would get to be a pain for me in traffic. Plus, there are fewer MTs to choose from.
@Saffron I agree on the widebody and your buddy's buyer's remorse is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but with other factors being taken into consideration. If your budget would have allowed you to get a Turbo, would you have, or are there other reasons you would have stayed with the C4S?
@pmiddy Great to hear that the Targa has been quiet...that's a concern. It's also interesting to hear the comment about not really maximizing the Turbo's hp...as stated above, all of these cars are plenty powerful. It sounds like we have very similar priorities when it comes to a car. Are you diving the Targa GTS during the winter? Did you put snow tires on it or are you toughing it out with the summers and relying on the AWD? I appreciate the offer...I may PM you.
@MDelaney Thanks for sharing your thought/decision criteria. Fortunately(?) we're not into any activities where we'd need a roof rack, so that doesn't force my hand. I ski a couple of times per year but rent the equipment. As long as I can fit my golf bag in, I'm good. Like you, I also value modern niceties like Carplay so I have to go with a 2017 .2 or above (I'd rather not rip open the PCM and install the Carplay mod).
But I think if I had the budget I would get the turbo.
Took me a long time to make the decision. I kept moving to more expensive cars the longer I looked. Took me a year to find this one.
But I have no regrets I believe this is the perfect car for me.
Good luck with your search.
02-25-2020, 08:36 PM
#22
Pro
I'll just point out that RWD with snow tires has excellent traction, cause the engine is over the drive wheels. You don't need AWD.
But if you are going to drive an AWD 911 in winter, you will still need snow tires, because you will damage the summer tires in cold weather. Even if it never sees snow.
But if you are going to drive an AWD 911 in winter, you will still need snow tires, because you will damage the summer tires in cold weather. Even if it never sees snow.
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0luke1 (02-26-2020)
02-25-2020, 08:45 PM
#23
I was gunning for a GT4, for ~2yrs, after selling my Lotus Elise. Had/have an S2000, so didn't have an interest in a Cab. Wanted slick top.
Test drove a GT4 and was little underwhelmed.
Borrowed a 991.1 GTS manual, and loved the exhaust sound. Quick, but not stupid fast. Loved the wide rear body.
Test drove a 991.1 Targa 4, that I was actually gunning for my wife. PDK. Loved the look of the Targa. The bar is classic. But Targa is heavy, PDK, n/a 3.4, didn't leave me tingly. Too much "sport car" for the wife, but I loved the looks.
Test drove another GT4 and a T.
Preferred the T. T was great. Was THIS close to getting a T.
Either way, the T vs GT4 left me thinking 911 instead of Cayman. Would still strongly consider a new 718.
Was doing a lot of "looking" online.
Found a 991.2 Targa 4S, Manual, with Power Kit. No more worrying about the heavy nature of the Targa! It rips. And thats before a Cobb.
Needed Manual even though the PDK is faster. But Manual just more engaging, for me. And I'm not using it in heavy stop and go Chicago traffic...
Throw in rear wheel steering, and the car feels smaller than it actually is.
Again, the Targa bar is classic, the glass back is the best looking 991, in my opinion. 50th Anniversary is next.
So despite not being what I set out for, I loved the way it drove, loved the looks, loved the open air qualities, but in a much better form factor than a cab.
Truth is, I love open air. Hence the S2000 and the Elise, which was open 70% of the time, soft top 15%, and hard targa top 15%
No creaks (knock on wood) on the Targa 4S top.
Downsides...you have to stop to open/close vs 30mph. Be mindful of the top opening, and the cars/space behind you.
Oil changes are more challenging because of the big beautiful glass. Everything under the engine more challenging.
It's not quiet, there is some buffering with top down ~80mph; top up, its coupe quiet.
Kids will want you to open/close the top.
Adults will too.
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
I live in MKE. But too much salt for me to use it in the winter. Maybe in a few years.
You can't go wrong either way.
Test drove a GT4 and was little underwhelmed.
Borrowed a 991.1 GTS manual, and loved the exhaust sound. Quick, but not stupid fast. Loved the wide rear body.
Test drove a 991.1 Targa 4, that I was actually gunning for my wife. PDK. Loved the look of the Targa. The bar is classic. But Targa is heavy, PDK, n/a 3.4, didn't leave me tingly. Too much "sport car" for the wife, but I loved the looks.
Test drove another GT4 and a T.
Preferred the T. T was great. Was THIS close to getting a T.
Either way, the T vs GT4 left me thinking 911 instead of Cayman. Would still strongly consider a new 718.
Was doing a lot of "looking" online.
Found a 991.2 Targa 4S, Manual, with Power Kit. No more worrying about the heavy nature of the Targa! It rips. And thats before a Cobb.
Needed Manual even though the PDK is faster. But Manual just more engaging, for me. And I'm not using it in heavy stop and go Chicago traffic...
Throw in rear wheel steering, and the car feels smaller than it actually is.
Again, the Targa bar is classic, the glass back is the best looking 991, in my opinion. 50th Anniversary is next.
So despite not being what I set out for, I loved the way it drove, loved the looks, loved the open air qualities, but in a much better form factor than a cab.
Truth is, I love open air. Hence the S2000 and the Elise, which was open 70% of the time, soft top 15%, and hard targa top 15%
No creaks (knock on wood) on the Targa 4S top.
Downsides...you have to stop to open/close vs 30mph. Be mindful of the top opening, and the cars/space behind you.
Oil changes are more challenging because of the big beautiful glass. Everything under the engine more challenging.
It's not quiet, there is some buffering with top down ~80mph; top up, its coupe quiet.
Kids will want you to open/close the top.
Adults will too.
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
I live in MKE. But too much salt for me to use it in the winter. Maybe in a few years.
You can't go wrong either way.
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911Stalker (02-25-2020)
02-25-2020, 09:10 PM
#25
When looking for my Porsche last year I considered a Turbo but hated the idea of AWD here in sunny CA and have always preferred RWD in general so I bought a RWD GTS without the added weight of a sunroof threw on some HF cats a Cobb tune and some BMC filters and loving every second I spend behind the wheel. The problem is it didn't stop at that, I ended up with HRE wheels, new PS4 tires, KW HAS Kit and full PPF as well as a few other minor goodies. Haven't dyno'd it but i'm pretty sure i'm pretty close to Turbo S power. Point is be careful of the mod bug as it could end up being very costly.
Vektor headers, Akrapovic/Soul HFCs, AMS intercoolers, tune on a GTS is a proven 130mph+ trap speed combination on a few cars. A stock Turbo S traps 130mph.
02-25-2020, 09:37 PM
#26
Pro
....
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
...
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
...
02-25-2020, 09:49 PM
#27
Instructor
I can't speak for Targa 4S or Turbo, but I'll share my experience in terms of C2S vs. C4S. I picked the C4S for all-weather flexibility and in driving the C2S and C4S back-to-back, I find the C4S "pulls" itself out of corners thanks to the front two wheels being powered. I can get on the gas much sooner exiting the corner and it rockets out. The steering feel is a little heavier, but I like that.
02-25-2020, 09:54 PM
#28
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The color does not hurt, like my Miami Blue Targa; however, it is getting attention when the top is retracted and the wrap around back glass, which one cannot find on any other 911 - Targa are not just any 911. And by the way, with the SmartTop module the top can be operated when moving up to 10mph, via the key fob and it has many other neat features.
02-25-2020, 10:51 PM
#29
Advanced
Thread Starter
Again, the problem is I like them all and don’t have enough time in seat to do a full comparison. I’d love to have a couple hours with each to go through multiple types of driving but haven’t had the opportunity. Need to fix that.
02-25-2020, 11:40 PM
#30
Advanced
Thread Starter
I was gunning for a GT4, for ~2yrs, after selling my Lotus Elise. Had/have an S2000, so didn't have an interest in a Cab. Wanted slick top.
Test drove a GT4 and was little underwhelmed.
Borrowed a 991.1 GTS manual, and loved the exhaust sound. Quick, but not stupid fast. Loved the wide rear body.
Test drove a 991.1 Targa 4, that I was actually gunning for my wife. PDK. Loved the look of the Targa. The bar is classic. But Targa is heavy, PDK, n/a 3.4, didn't leave me tingly. Too much "sport car" for the wife, but I loved the looks.
Test drove another GT4 and a T.
Preferred the T. T was great. Was THIS close to getting a T.
Either way, the T vs GT4 left me thinking 911 instead of Cayman. Would still strongly consider a new 718.
Was doing a lot of "looking" online.
Found a 991.2 Targa 4S, Manual, with Power Kit. No more worrying about the heavy nature of the Targa! It rips. And thats before a Cobb.
Needed Manual even though the PDK is faster. But Manual just more engaging, for me. And I'm not using it in heavy stop and go Chicago traffic...
Throw in rear wheel steering, and the car feels smaller than it actually is.
Again, the Targa bar is classic, the glass back is the best looking 991, in my opinion. 50th Anniversary is next.
So despite not being what I set out for, I loved the way it drove, loved the looks, loved the open air qualities, but in a much better form factor than a cab.
Truth is, I love open air. Hence the S2000 and the Elise, which was open 70% of the time, soft top 15%, and hard targa top 15%
No creaks (knock on wood) on the Targa 4S top.
Downsides...you have to stop to open/close vs 30mph. Be mindful of the top opening, and the cars/space behind you.
Oil changes are more challenging because of the big beautiful glass. Everything under the engine more challenging.
It's not quiet, there is some buffering with top down ~80mph; top up, its coupe quiet.
Kids will want you to open/close the top.
Adults will too.
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
I live in MKE. But too much salt for me to use it in the winter. Maybe in a few years.
You can't go wrong either way.
Test drove a GT4 and was little underwhelmed.
Borrowed a 991.1 GTS manual, and loved the exhaust sound. Quick, but not stupid fast. Loved the wide rear body.
Test drove a 991.1 Targa 4, that I was actually gunning for my wife. PDK. Loved the look of the Targa. The bar is classic. But Targa is heavy, PDK, n/a 3.4, didn't leave me tingly. Too much "sport car" for the wife, but I loved the looks.
Test drove another GT4 and a T.
Preferred the T. T was great. Was THIS close to getting a T.
Either way, the T vs GT4 left me thinking 911 instead of Cayman. Would still strongly consider a new 718.
Was doing a lot of "looking" online.
Found a 991.2 Targa 4S, Manual, with Power Kit. No more worrying about the heavy nature of the Targa! It rips. And thats before a Cobb.
Needed Manual even though the PDK is faster. But Manual just more engaging, for me. And I'm not using it in heavy stop and go Chicago traffic...
Throw in rear wheel steering, and the car feels smaller than it actually is.
Again, the Targa bar is classic, the glass back is the best looking 991, in my opinion. 50th Anniversary is next.
So despite not being what I set out for, I loved the way it drove, loved the looks, loved the open air qualities, but in a much better form factor than a cab.
Truth is, I love open air. Hence the S2000 and the Elise, which was open 70% of the time, soft top 15%, and hard targa top 15%
No creaks (knock on wood) on the Targa 4S top.
Downsides...you have to stop to open/close vs 30mph. Be mindful of the top opening, and the cars/space behind you.
Oil changes are more challenging because of the big beautiful glass. Everything under the engine more challenging.
It's not quiet, there is some buffering with top down ~80mph; top up, its coupe quiet.
Kids will want you to open/close the top.
Adults will too.
I didn't buy it for "attention". I try to be polite. Gets nothing but positive reactions.
Lotus was similar, but people are more vocal/happy with the Targa.
Lotus, people took photos and selfies, vs people talking to me about the Targa.
Again, I think because its the classic look, going back to the early 70's
I live in MKE. But too much salt for me to use it in the winter. Maybe in a few years.
You can't go wrong either way.
And I agree with others...I’d guess that a lot of the looks and comments you get have something to do with that paint choice. That’s a classic color.