911Stalker

So, I've been stalking some 991.2s and getting ready to drive a few now that the Chicago weather is mellowing out a little (the snow has melted for now). One out of state car I found is a 991.2 C2S with the X51 Power Kit. As much as I want a C4S, I'm really intrigued by this car. It has pretty much everything else I want: night blue, blue/crayon interior, PSE, entry & drive, PSC, LCA and PSP. The only thing it doesn't have is AWD (and the wide body). The one thing it DOES have that I DON’T like are decals: Porsche decal on the rocker panels and two red/silver stripes on the hood/roof/rear deck. PLUS, the car is listed by a non-Porsche dealer, so no CPO.

A few questions for the veterans here:

• If I forego AWD here in Chicago...is the snow handling for RWD and winter tires REALLY that good?
• Is it worth "settling" for a C2S just to get the Power Kit option along with all of my other desired options? (I've had in my head that I'd probably tune a C4S anyway, so it saves a step)
• How much of a hassle would it likely be to remove the decals?
• How much trouble am I asking for by not getting a CPO car and relying on getting a third-party extended warranty?

TorqueChap

A C2S with the power kit is VERY cool. But if it's your only car you will likely miss AWD in Chicago a good part of the year.

911Stalker

I'd planned on keeping my AWD Infiniti FX50 for the days when the snow is really bad (or when I need to haul lots of stuff/people), but my hope is certainly to DD the 911 in all but the worst conditions.

TorqueChap

By all means get a RWD car if you find one you love!

Catharpin

Dear 911Stalker,

You know you want the widebootdy. You know every time you come up on one, you'll have wished you went there.
Just do it.
All 992 went wide, for a reason.

Sincerely,
991.booty

Rich_Jenkins

Boomer perspective (sorry ):

These cars are not made of silk, to borrow a phrase. Anyone living in snow year in and year out has driven 2WD cars for years. Pick the right set of tires, swap them them in, rock on. Tirerack has steel wheel and winter tire packages available. You have to recognize the car has limited ground clearance so you aren't going to be a snow plow, but unless you need to deliver people to the hospital at 2AM after a blizzard, a 911 should be ok. Plus you have an alternative. AWD is great as a winter driving aid, of course, but you won't be immobilized after the first snowflake.

On decals, depending on how long they have been on, and their color, you may expect some discoloration on removal. I can't think of a situation where you could not get them off. The problem is what does it look like after, and can you tell. Plus, does it matter. The safe bet is to buy the car assuming that you can not get them off without the subsequent buyer noticing. This may result in diminished value for you. On that basis, I always evaluate a car "as is", sitting on the dealer lot.

A late model 991.2 is a good bet, as far as reliability. I did my research before buying mine. I was surprised Porsche is next to Lexus at the top of several recent JD Power ratings, as a brand. Specifically the 991.2 has a few issues here and there you see sprinkled through the forums. (I've also concluded internet forums are filled with repeated stories, but the vast majority of owners just enjoy their cars.) And even if it is a '17, non-CPO, you should be looking at at least 12-18 months of manufacturers warranty, even with no CPO. So if the car is a lemon the first year, you will have a fall back. You can always evaluate buying an extended warranty at that time. For me, I've never seen the value proposition for after market warranties, preferring to bank that money against future risk. Over 40 years, I am way ahead.

YMMV. Good luck and hope it works out for ya.

T3X4S

Shakira says, "Hips don't lie." Bubba Sparxxx says, "Booty booty booty booty rockin' everywhere."

TorqueChap

Haha haha. I'm a bit biased. Got a 993TT and GTS 4 Targa. But some porschophiles love a narrow booty. To each their own.

911Stalker

I do like me some wide hips, but it really is a case of function over form since I'm in Chicago. BUT, I am going to try to test drive a 2S today to see how it handles in the much with standard tires. I know it won't be a true representation of winter performance as I'd have to set up the car, but it's the best I can do at a dealership.

Lightchop

Hey OP, I'm also in Chicagoland and looking for a 991.2. We're in competition! Slightly kidding, because while our wish list seems very similar our #1 criteria is different (I want manual). I feel like the vast majority of the 991s listed are PDK. Heck, even some of the results listed as Manual end up being PDK in the photos. I think you'll readily find something.

You raised concern on 2017 model year. I was too. I made a thread recently and posed the question of what to look out for / problems - I got a good response (water pumps, changeover valves, PDK, door panels, etc) in my thread https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1179...d-991-a-2.html. I've researched a bit further and have convinced myself that as long as cosmetics (door panels, tires) are good, Carfax is clean, and is CPO, I'm comfortable. But I'm not well learned in this area.

Last comment - I keep telling myself that 991.2 inventory should blip up in the spring as people roll out of their leases and into 992s. But that might be wishful thinking. Good luck.

EDIT: I also notice you say you want to chip your car (as would I). One thing I've been curious about is tuning a RWD. I fear that a C2S for example, with +100hp might be more troublesome to contain.

911Stalker

@Lightchop glad you’re looking for a MT so we’re not in direct competition. I know what you mean about incorrect listings...I was just looking online at a 4S up in the north burbs...listed as a 7 speed but the pics show a PDK. Also, thanks for sharing the link with possible ‘17 issues. I do feel good that a combination of PPI and CPO would help catch and fix anything of concern.

911Stalker

So I was able to demo a C2S (992 though) with snow tires in snowy conditions and was really impressed with the traction. It was solid in standing starts, cornering, and stopping in sloppy conditions all while being heavy on the pedal and brakes. Since I’m pretty sure I’m gonna keep the FX50 for backup, the C2S has edged out the C4S.

BUT, along the way I’ve now fallen in love with the Targa 4S. The Targa is the car I’ve always dreamed about and I had a chance to check out a leftover new ‘19. While buying new would be more than I want to spend, I’m now looking for pre-owned ‘17-‘19s. Meanwhile, I need to schedule a time to drive one when the weather clears up a little to check out the wind noise and buffering (I’ve read differing opinions and need to hear/feel for myself).

It seems crazy that I’m torn between such different trims, but it’s really a choice between style/cool factor and what’s good enough to get the job done. The price difference is looking like it may be about $20-$25k, so I may have to decide how much extra I’m willing to pay to fully satisfy the dream.

TorqueChap

The Targa is amazing. Critics say it's a bit more top heavy, but unless you're a race car driver you will never feel it. Just the wind in your hair 😎

Lightchop

911Stalker - funny but you seem to be contemplating what I've basically concluded - leftover 2019's are perhaps a better buy now than used 17-19s. I too have a couple new 2019 Targas I'm looking at (again, manual - so we're not looking at the same one!).

Some fairly well used 17's are going for only 30% off new, while I have to assume most "new" 2019's can be had now for 10% + off. I'd be happy to hear otherwise.

Of course, once you decide to buy new, the next thought that creeps in is - why not just buy a new 2020 model ! Thankfully for me there are no new 2020 manuals yet. And frankly, the 992s are so good, it might be a shame to get one in a manual.

I look forward to hearing where you end up.

Waterloo

I have a '19 Targa and wind noise/buffeting is a non issue in my opinion. On long drives to the cottage (100-120 km/h) I have the top open and widows down when its just me. When my wife is along I just raise the windows and we can have a conversation (not easy at the best of times due to my 30% hearing loss and her being deaf in her left ear). Around town widows down is perfectly fine for everyone. My daily commute involves a 10 min run on the 401 here in southern Ontario where the speed routinely hits 140 km/h and the wind isn't an issue. I even drive around town with the top open (and windows up) here in the winter (-5 deg celsius the other day) and my ever expanding forehead barely gets cold! Get a Targa, they are fantastic and the manual makes them even better.