911Stalker

Long-time lurker, first-time poster...I appreciate your patience with this rather detailed first post.

So, I'm starting the process of shopping for a pre-owned 911 and expect to make a purchase sometime in 2020 if I find the right car at a price I can live with. I've driven a few in my lifetime (mainly older ones) and have been researching the newer ones to get more familiar with the latest gens. Now, I still have to go out and drive some newer cars to validate this, but based on research and what I think I need in a car, I'm leaning towards a 991.2 C2S.

The plan is for this to be a daily driver (except for really bad snow days or when I need the extra room, which is why I'm keeping my Infiniti FX50) and I'd like to track it a few times per year. For background on my situation, I'm a 53 yr-old professional who works from home in the Chicago burbs, drives for work a few times per month (to meetings around Chicagoland) and rent cars or taxi to one of the airports for longer trips. So...I expect the driving mix will be something like 70% suburban, 15% city, 10% road trips and 5% track.

I'd love to get some input from current (or past) owners of 991s to help me pressure test my initial thought process:

• 100% getting a PDK - I sometimes like the driving experience of a manual transmission, but the PDK seems awesome and will be more convenient in Chicago traffic
• 100% going with a coupe - as much as I love the idea of open-air driving, it's hard to justify a cabrio in Chicago, and the Targa mechanism seems like a bit of a production (on top of the added cost)
• 90% getting RWD - I love the wider body and like having AWD in Chicago winters but think RWD is more fun overall, provides a truer sports car experience, and should be with winter tires and the electronic nannies
• 90% getting the S for the additional power, brakes and PTV; I'll give the Base C2 a shot in case it surprises me, but the GTS is out (don't really want SPASM or center-mount wheels)
• 90% sure I don't want SPASM and PDCC (for everyday ride quality and comfort) <yes, I know I said it'll see the track periodically...but that'll be a very small percentage of its overall use; PASM should be fine>
• 85% sure I'll have to buy an out-of-state car after looking through Porsche's online list of pre-owned cars, so I know I'll have to line up a PPI and transportation of the vehicle - I'm fine with that
• 80% that it'll be a 2017, but I'm a bit nervous about that being the first year of the new gen...still researching to see if there are issues specific to the 2017 that got resolved in 2018 (not looking at 991.1s because I prefer the .2 styling, want to stay a little newer and want the PCM w/Carplay)

Here's my main wish list of options, the rationale for them, and how much of a priority they are. I understand that it'll be tough to find EVERYTHING I want, but I'm willing to be patient and flexible on timing, location, and price (as long as it's a reasonable deal). There are other items on my wish list (interior/exterior trim, badging, etc), but most of them can be added after the fact through Rennline, Suncoast or Porsche without incurring crazy expenses.

• Premium Plus package (mainly for heated/ventilated seats, entry & drive and PDLS) - this is a 9/10 priority
• Sport chrono package (for sport mode on the road to hear the exhaust, and to use sport+ on the track) - 8/10
• Sports exhaust (because, that sound) - though I'd also consider an exhaust mod or aftermarket kit) - 7/10
• Multifunction, heated sport steering wheel with paddle shifters (because Chicago winters and convenience/fun) - 7/10
• Rear axle steering (more agile on the track and at low speeds) - 6/10
• Interior color other than all-black (preferably two-tone and/or a lighter color: crayon, beige, grey, blue) - 8/10
• Colors (in order of preference): night blue, sapphire blue, graphite blue, agate grey, silver, white, (black if I have to)...no yellow or red (I do plan on getting PPF, so I could always go with a colored wrap instead of clear) - 7/10
• Glass sunroof (mainly to let a little more light into the cabin) - could live without this if pretty much everything else is there - 6/10

I appreciate any input that can help me determine whether I'm thinking about this the wrong way or missing something. TIA.

SF Neunelfer

Great color choices, for both interior and exterior.

Not sure what I would add, other than full leather, that a must have for me. Your list looks real good. Rear steering would be lower on my list, as it’s a can live without.

Nice way to start off the new year.

991.1GTS

You’re a solid critical thinker. It’s hard to punch holes in your rationale; you’ve done your homework.
Something to ponder is - don’t be so quick to eliminate the GTS (yes I’m biased), the PASM doesn’t hurt the ride - in my opinion, go drive them for yourself obviously ... and you don’t have to have center lock wheels on a GTS- mine has five lugs, by choice. You get the wide body and a plethora of other options. I flew to California for my car, and had it shipped to Florida - shopping for it was part of the fun / experience.

Happy hunting and keep us apprised.

Rich_Jenkins

Very random and unqualified thoughts from someone was in your shoes last June. I bought a '17 CPO C2 and could not be happier. Previously I had a '14 981S.

I have some of the options on your list, so I will run through them. Not going to comment on PDK vs. MT - that (and obviously most of the rest) are up to you. Colors certainly are personal.

On the options you mentioned that are on my car:

- Premium plus / PDLS / Entry and Drive - Yes I like this. I think the entry and drive is most useful; you still have to turn a "key" to start the car though. The actual fob stays in the pocket. The lights at night that follow the road; I am unconvinced they help. German car lights generally are extremely effective. I had these on my E92 M3 also. Was not a fan then.
- I have SC and like it, a lot. Mine being a MT car I really like the auto-blip on downshift. I think this is one of the hidden gems on SC with MT. PDK of course has the "boost" button w SC and all the other functions as well.
- The glass sunroof on my coupe, I could do with out actually. I never use it and I'm in Florida; it's either too humid or too cold. I think to appreciate a sunroof or cab you need to be in LA or somewhere like that.
- Multifunction steering wheel is pretty cool; the heated and cooled seats are very nice as well.
- I have the black 14 way seats and like them very much.

Options you did not mention but you might want to consider:

- 457 LCA Lane Change Assist - I find this driving aid essential. It helps notify you to traffic in your blind spot and has saved my butt a few times already.
- 9VL Bose - I don't know if you are an audiofile or not but the Bose system IMHO is a worthwhile step up. For the 991.2, the Bose features 12 loudspeakers including a 100W active subwoofer with 555W of power. The Base system is 8 loudspeakers at 150W standard.
- 583 Smoking Package - This adds a useful 12V outlet in the center armrest. I'm not a smoker; but just thought I would point that out in case you see it on a build sheet and wondered whether that meant the car was a smoker; more than likely it was ordered (it is a 0$ option) by a buyer speccing his/her car.)

On options I do not have (obviously your money, you get to pick situation here)

- S vs. Base - 5% track time seems like a waste of a big bump in price to get an S, if 95% of the time you are daily driving? But your call. Who doesn't need more power and bigger front brakes etc.
- No idea on rear wheel steering. Some say it is a must have (and not avail on base) and some say it is a big meh.
- Sports exhaust is also a personal preference; I don't see the point, as it appears to be a cosmetic (aural) thing only; with no performance boost (someone will correct me if I am wrong.) But I am an old fart so perhaps not the best judge of exhaust notes. The stock exhaust on my base S sounds fine.

Sounds like you have your priorities straight, and know what you want. It took me about a month of looking to find mine; I had to fly to JFK and see the car in person before making the purchase. I paid a lot, since it was a dealer car, but I feel like I got what I paid for.

One last comment: Porsche folks are wonderful, but very picky (lol) and thus want their car "their way". So you will find quite a few cars specced out with what might seem an odd collection of options (colors, I find, mostly) because that is how their owner's wanted them. I was mildly surprised at how few "normal" cars were out there. Of course I was looking for a an MT car; PDKs should outnumber MTs by a good margin. I think you are in a better case also than I was, because now that the 992s are here there should be some recent 991s coming available as sales or trades.

Also: About buying a '17: I was also nervous about the 'geez first year of production' but in truth the 991s started in 2012. So the basic car is solid. The engine and tech received a big uplift with the Turbo 3.0l motor and PCM 4+. Mine has been pretty solid, at any rate. I've not seen a huge number of threads here about issues with 17-19 991.2, actually.

Good luck!

HkPlinker

I have owned older 911 targa, cab, 930 CAB 996TT CAB and currently drive a CPO 991.1 C2S CAB. I love the car as a weekender get-a-way and evening driver. I too wanted only Sports Chromo and PDK. Now, I'm glad I waited and, as hard as it was, I passed on several "perfect" cars I wanted to own and drive.

Here are my thoughts:

Make a preference list on porsche NA CPO search and keep checking weekly. I found my 991 the day it was in traded for. The entire options listing was on the Porsche national site. I called the dealer and the salesman had no clue the car was even on the lot. I put a down payment on the car while it was in service and negotiated everything from that point knowing the car was locked out from other buyers.


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I'd love to get some input from current (or past) owners of 991s to help me pressure test my initial thought process:

• 100% getting a PDK - I sometimes like the driving experience of a manual transmission, but the PDK seems awesome and will be more convenient in Chicago traffic
• YES
• 100% going with a coupe - as much as I love the idea of open-air driving, it's hard to justify a cabrio in Chicago, and the Targa mechanism seems like a bit of a production (on top of the added cost)
• W/ Sun Roof
• 90% getting RWD - I love the wider body and like having AWD in Chicago winters but think RWD is more fun overall, provides a truer sports car experience, and should be with winter tires and the electronic nannies
• I agree on the RWD, it's fun to delete PASM and kick out the rear some, but if you want a high speed cornering beast, go with the 4S or rear axle steering not to mention it will provide more confidence in the rain and sleet
• 90% getting the S for the additional power, brakes and PTV; I'll give the Base C2 a shot in case it surprises me, but the GTS is out (don't really want PASM-S or center-mount wheels)
• YES, 100% get the S
• 90% sure I don't want PASM-S and PDCC (for everyday ride quality and comfort) <yes, I know I said it'll see the track periodically...but that'll be a very small percentage of its overall use>
• I have PDCC in my CAB. It is much more rigid and solid as a rock. Don't know about the coupe, but a must with a CAB
• 85% sure I'll have to buy an out-of-state car after looking through Porsche's online list of pre-owned cars, so I know I'll have to line up a PPI and transportation of the vehicle - I'm fine with that
• 100% do a PPI, use these boards to find a top notch indy
• 80% that it'll be a 2017, but I'm a bit nervous about that being the first year of the new gen...still researching to see if there are issues specific to the 2017 that got resolved in 2018 (not looking at 991.1s because I prefer the .2 styling, want to stay a little newer and want the PCM w/Carplay)
• What's a couple more grand a this point. Get the 2018. By the time you're ready to pull the trigger there will be an entire new selection of cars on CPO. Many believe the 991.2 market will flood with many superb cars due to the increasing selection of 992 cars on the ground. You will be able to get a far better optioned (and newer) car in 4-6 months from now.

Here's my main wish list of options, the rationale for them, and how much of a priority they are. I understand that it'll be tough to find EVERYTHING I want, but I'm willing to be patient and flexible on timing, location, and price (as long as it's a reasonable deal). There are other items on my wish list (interior/exterior trim, badging, etc), but most of them can be added after the fact through Rennline, Suncoast or Porsche without incurring crazy expenses.

• Premium Plus package (mainly for heated/ventilated seats, entry & drive and PDLS) - this is a 9/10 priority
• YES
• Sport chrono package (for sport mode on the road to hear the exhaust, and to use sport+ on the track) - 8/10
• 100% A MUST
• Sports exhaust (because, that sound) - though I'd also consider an exhaust mod or aftermarket kit) - 7/10
• Not a deal killer, you can upgrade with a SOUL or any other fabulous exhaust system.
• Multifunction, heated sport steering wheel with paddle shifters (because Chicago winters and convenience/fun) - 7/10
• PADDLE SHIFTERS ARE A MUST. Honestly, in SPORT MODE (manual with paddle shifting) is the only mode I drive (with PSE on).
• Rear axle steering (more agile on the track and at low speeds) - 6/10
• I have no input, but if you're staying with a 2S, why not
• Interior color other than all-black (preferably two-tone and/or a lighter color: crayon, beige, grey, blue) - 8/10
• Totally your call. It's your car. Only buy a color you would order
• Colors (in order of preference): night blue, sapphire blue, graphite blue, agate grey, silver, white, (black if I have to)...no yellow or red (I do plan on getting PPF, so I could always go with a colored wrap instead of clear) - 7/10
• Don't forget Chalk, but again, only buy the color you want. There are too many cars out there to settle with your forth or fifth favorite color. Make a yes / no color list and stick with it
• agate grey was the color I waited over a year with the options I wanted. JUST BE PATIENT, they are lots go great cars out there to choose from.
• Agate Grey Metallic
• White
• Sapphire Blue Metallic
• Rhodium Silver Metallic
• Racing Yellow
• Night Blue Metallic
• Miami Blue
• Lava Orange
• Jet Black Metallic
• Guards Red
• Silver Metallic
• Graphite Blue
• Chalk
• White Metallic
• Carmine Red
• Black

Get it Ceramic coated. Take a look at my pictures, the one at the dealership was prior to ceramic coating. It looks like a completely new car.

• Glass sunroof (mainly to let a little more light into the cabin) - could live without this if pretty much everything else is there - 6/10
• It will get hotter in the cabin as well on that little appearing bald spot , but it's your car

Happy Hunting !




at the Dealer.

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911Stalker

Thanks to you all for jumping in to share your helpful thoughts. So as to avoid quoting multiple people with multiple posts, I'll respond to and expand on a some of your combined topics here (boy this list got away from me...I'll work on being more concise going forward):

@rbugaj - full leather is definitely a 9/10 for me, though I do like the leather/fabric option too (but it's rare and I think that eliminates the ventilated seats option). I didn't list full leather because so many of the cars I'm seeing have it that I don't think finding it will be an issue. I'm NOT a fan of Alcantara, so that will eliminate a few cars here and there. And, I like the brushed aluminum interior trim, but I know I can swap out carbon or wood for it later. Good perspective on the rear steering - I haven't driven with it, so I'll have to see how it is with/without it.

@991.1GTS I'd expect no less than a plug for your platform from someone with a name like that! Since I'm buying used, I'm limited to the choices that the first owners made, and 5-bolt GTSs seem to be pretty rare. You make a fair argument for PASM-S, so I'll check out the ride (and probably with PDCC since it seems to be a popular option on the GTS line) and will withhold judgment until after. The thing is that, unless driving one really overwhelms me, I don't think it'll be worth the extra money for me. I'm already planning to ECU mod the car, so I figure I can squeeze about 500hp out of an S. That's plenty-o-power for me, so I think a GTS would have to be a killer deal with all the right options to justify the extra they'd cost. Stay tuned after I drive one, though...

@Rich_Jenkins Great insight, and I appreciate hearing about your car's options.

• RE glass sunroof, I open my current one maybe a couple dozen times a year, so I can definitely live without it. It's in the nice-to-have column.
• Nick Murray really rags on the long-term comfort of the 14-way seats, so I'm looking forward to seeing for myself how they feel compared to the 18-way. Funny, I actually wonder if the 4-way would be just fine for me because (1) I will be the only driver, so memory seats are a waste and (2) it seems that it would be easier to access the rear seat area (for things like my golf clubs) with the 4-way's manual seat slider.
• LCA is definitely high on my WANT list, as is adaptive cruise control and PAS - not sure how many I'll find, though
• Bose goes without saying. I'm not seeing many without it, and a few with Bermester (will take it but won't pay more for it)
• Yeah, I do think I'd want the 12v smoking package outlet (for an additional set of USB ports in an adapter) and the lid for that compartment, but it's also a nice-to-have
• The S bump is my concession to the little kid in me who always dreamed of a 911 Turbo...NOT gonna pony up for a death machine Turbo (kidding guys), so I'll spring for the 420hp S and chip it
• Fortunately (or unfortunately?), I didn't grow up owning and driving air-cooled or naturally aspirated Porsches, so the sound thing isn't a deal-breaker. BUT, I do like the idea of anything that can retain at least some of that traditional flat-six howl and crackling. As you said, it's PURELY an aural thing, but I just have to see how the non-PSE sounds and makes me feel. Also gonna drive a 996 and 997 to get some different perspectives on the new vs. old sound.
• RE colors, I was shocked at how much Porsche lets you dial in every aspect of your car via the configurator, so I've certainly seen a wide range of combinations. There are several combos that are acceptable to me, so I'll keep looking for my ideal (night blue with chalk & blue) while also noting the other ones that would be OK.
• I'm COUNTING on 992s driving the 991 prices down as more of the 992s start hitting the streets, as well as more 991s going on the block as owners trade up or turn in leases. Sorry for anyone feeling like their car is losing more value, but yay for us 991 shoppers!
• LASTLY (whew), thanks for the reassurance on the '17s. I know that it was just a mid-cycle refresh year, but it's good to hear some affirmation that it's solid.

@HkPlinker Awesome commentary and tips - thanks!

• I've been stalking the Porsche site but haven't saved a config because I wanted to keep the search broad - good tip and I'll do that while I keep browsing the rest of the inventory!
• Now that the weather is turning in Chicago, I'm looking forward to test driving a 4 vs a Base, even if it's not with winter tires. I'm hoping the experience pushes me hard one way over the other.
• I've got a sport suspension in my FX50 and I know the 911 will be even firmer. I'm ready to take a little comfort & suppleness over a super-rigid ride.
• I'm so glad found this board and have already found threads discussing indy options for PPI in different areas
• RE '18 vs '17, I'm definitely hoping to get into an '18 based on my expected timing around late winter/early spring - open to both and willing to pull the trigger on a low mileage '17 if it's the right specs.
• For exhaust, I saw Auto Amateur's Soul upgrade, as well as some info on Fister & Gundo mods...certainly have some good options for under $5k if it turns out to be that important to me
• Paddles...yeah, I love slapping me some paddles in sport mode
• Interior: I don't think I've seen many colors I can't live with, but all black is so boring to me, and red only goes with a handful of paint colors
• Chalk is also a great color and would make my YES list; black is a bit boring to me, but the only definite NO's from the 16 main options are yellow, both reds, orange, Miami blue and mahogany - customer colors TBD
• How did you know my head is bald! LOL! I haven't paid attention in other cars...does the 911 NOT have a sunshade that you can close when the sunroof is closed? If not, that'll be a factor against it.
• Very nice cab! I'm retiring in the next 5-6 years and we plan to move somewhere sunny...THAT's the kind of 911 I'd love to have when that time comes.
• I've seen references to ceramic coating, but I'm not informed enough about it and will research it more - thanks for the tip!
• LASTLY (whew), what's model is that in your center front fascia opening?

TorqueChap

Get the AWD for a DD. Great in rain and snow. If you lived in LA I'd say the RWD is fine.

Thinc2

I have a 2019 C2 as a daily driver. This was also my first Porsche. My thoughts after 10 months, 10K miles of ownership.

The sunroof is nice if you live somewhere that has a lot of dreary weather as it makes the cabin feel larger, more airy. I think the benefit of the sunroof is to let in light during dreary weather. I almost never open mine, and tend to use the shade if it's super sunny out. Sunroof is perfect for Seattle weather.

I think you should take a look at a few cars with leather interior. For a daily driver this can make a big difference. In my opinion, it transforms the interior of the car. I'd rate this a 9/10.

SC - There are so many cars out there that have it, it seems strange to buy without it. I think it adds a lot to the driving experience. I'd rate it a 9/10, maybe 10/10.

As you mentioned - Bose is 10/10

digits

* 90% getting RWD - I love the wider body and like having AWD in Chicago winters but think RWD is more fun overall, provides a truer sports car experience, and should be with winter tires and the electronic nannies
I prefer the AWD cars since breaking the tires loose on a cold, wet incline is sooo easy. Finding the perfect car is hard, so extend your search to include the C4S and then decide on RWD/AWD based on the whole picture.

* 90% getting the S for the additional power, brakes and PTV; I'll give the Base C2 a shot in case it surprises me, but the GTS is out (don't really want PASM-S or center-mount wheels)
Of course give the base a shot, these cars are quick enough that you'll rarely use all the power anyway, so include the C2 and C4 in your search, too. Plus, you said you're open to an engine tune.
But I don't remember if you can get rear-axle-steering on a base... that would be a deal breaker for me.

*90% sure I don't want PASM-S and PDCC (for everyday ride quality and comfort) <yes, I know I said it'll see the track periodically...but that'll be a very small percentage of its overall use>
SPASM rides lower and is a pretty firm ride, so I understand why you'd skip it - PDCC helps but it's not required. And SPASM means now you wonder even more about whether you need FAL to get up those crazy parking lot aprons without scraping...

*80% that it'll be a 2017, but I'm a bit nervous about that being the first year of the new gen...still researching to see if there are issues specific to the 2017 that got resolved in 2018 (not looking at 991.1s because I prefer the .2 styling, want to stay a little newer and want the PCM w/Carplay)
I wouldn't worry about that too much, just get a car with CPO.

*Premium Plus package (mainly for heated/ventilated seats, entry & drive and PDLS) - this is a 9/10 priority
This is a good choice - why scratch up the paint with a key when you don't have to? And the LED headlights are fantastic.

*Sport chrono package (for sport mode on the road to hear the exhaust, and to use sport+ on the track) - 8/10
If you plan to track, then you want this - but I don't think it's required for the sport exhaust fart sounds and it doesn't make those sounds in Sport+ anyway.

*Sports exhaust (because, that sound) - though I'd also consider an exhaust mod or aftermarket kit) - 7/10
You'll get a much better sound going aftermarket if that's what you're after, so that seems like a reasonable option if you find the perfect car without PSE.

*Multifunction, heated sport steering wheel with paddle shifters (because Chicago winters and convenience/fun) - 7/10
You get paddle shifters anyway, but the heated multifunction wheel is very handy - I prefer the GT sport version (smaller diameter) which was also available as heated/multifunction.

*Rear axle steering (more agile on the track and at low speeds) - 6/10
I'd give up a whole lot of other options just to get this.

*Interior color other than all-black (preferably two-tone and/or a lighter color: crayon, beige, grey, blue) - 8/10
This will really limit your options, lighter colors will more easily show dirt/stains, and can cause more glare in the windshield. I love them too, but...

*Glass sunroof (mainly to let a little more light into the cabin) - could live without this if pretty much everything else is there - 6/10
It doesn't let it that much more light, adds weight, and mine used to rattle like crazy. You don't live in SoCal. You can use the lack of sunroof to help negotiate a better price.

* Nick Murray really rags on the long-term comfort of the 14-way seats, so I'm looking forward to seeing for myself how they feel compared to the 18-way. Funny, I actually wonder if the 4-way would be just fine for me because (1) I will be the only driver, so memory seats are a waste and (2) it seems that it would be easier to access the rear seat area (for things like my golf clubs) with the 4-way's manual seat slider.
You have to sit in them. The seats are very different. Seats that aren't comfortable for YOU should be a deal breaker.

* LCA is definitely high on my WANT list, as is adaptive cruise control and PAS - not sure how many I'll find, though
I've had both and they work well, but ACC is rare (many people don't like the look of the cyclops eyeball). LCA would be a must, for me.

* Yeah, I do think I'd want the 12v smoking package outlet (for an additional set of USB ports in an adapter) and the lid for that compartment, but it's also a nice-to-have
I'm always amazed when I see a car that didn't spec this $0 option, but they are out there. Very, very convenient to have a normal 12v socket handy. You can't reach the passenger footwell while driving.

Catharpin

Have you considered any of the factory body kits? I was shopping and had never seen a sport design front bumper before. Once I did I was hooked, it was a must have for me.

Jack F

GTS does not have to have CL.
Drive a base. It it surprisingly fast. Oddly very low production car.
Reconsider 2017.

HkPlinker

My 991 has the Burmester. It is wonderful. Far superior to the Bose in my 2008 997TT. I would ask the OP to listen to both

HkPlinker

The front fascia top center bracket is a K40 censer

BSO

Driving a model like my C4S on the Chicago streets, you’d face getting in and out of roadways and garages, the front lip would be ground down in short order plus scrapes to the bottom of the bumpers covers and any low points, front axle lift would be mandatory.

As far as options, you’ll find that compromise is key. When I was looking at inventory a year ago, there were lots of black interiors, sunroofs and stuff I didn’t want and not that many 991.2s that even came close to my specs. Maybe you’ll have better luck. I ordered one in the end.

worf928

FWIW, PDCC actually increases ride quality and comfort when driving in a straight line. For a semi-daily driver on roads that I assume are no better than in the Boston area, PDCC makes a noticeable difference.