anyone having problems with PDK
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 478
From: Orlando burbs
[QUOTE=mchrono;16310960]Personally I cant justify owning something with a complicated black box that automatically costs $16-$20k to repair if anything at all goes wrong with it:QUOTE]
Just so you know two things:
2nd gear synchro failed in my 2015 C2S manual just past 3000 miles on the odometer, and the replacement tranny was $17.5k plus labor and taxes to install. Porsche dealers are not allowed to repair them.
Both old and new 7 speed manuals were crappy shifting. I'll never own a 7 speed manual like that again. I loved my Porsche 6 speed manuals, but the Greenies forced the 7 speed manual on us and it is total crap to drive, IMO.
And if you do the research here on Rennlist, you will find the PDK is repairable. Mine in my 2017 C2S is totally flawless at nearly 10,000 miles.
I now let my fingers do the shifting and it is amazingly satisfying. Don't let anybody BS you.
Just so you know two things:
2nd gear synchro failed in my 2015 C2S manual just past 3000 miles on the odometer, and the replacement tranny was $17.5k plus labor and taxes to install. Porsche dealers are not allowed to repair them.
Both old and new 7 speed manuals were crappy shifting. I'll never own a 7 speed manual like that again. I loved my Porsche 6 speed manuals, but the Greenies forced the 7 speed manual on us and it is total crap to drive, IMO.
And if you do the research here on Rennlist, you will find the PDK is repairable. Mine in my 2017 C2S is totally flawless at nearly 10,000 miles.
I now let my fingers do the shifting and it is amazingly satisfying. Don't let anybody BS you.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 57
I think some people are looking to blame it on the transmission/traffic as to why they don’t drive manuals when the reality is that they just prefer an automatic/are not comfortable with a manual. I’ve said it before - PDK is incredible evolution of the automatic (AND it’s faster) so PDK owners, you win - congrats!! PDK will simply never replace the experience for someone looking for three pedals and a mechanical shifter. Period.
I’ve owned everything from Ferrari gated manuals to Toyota manual 4 spds from the 80’s (notice how I said “owned” & and not “driven my friend’s for a few minutes” - yes, it does make a difference). The 7 spd in the 991 is a great modern manual transmission (much better than the 6spd in the 996, for example), even more so in the 991.2.
Having said that (and recognizing that I participated in it with the statement above)...it’s a shame that the OP was commenting about an issue he’s had with the PDK & was asking for other’s experiences and what he got instead was (ANOTHER) PDK vs manual transmission debate (rife with misinformation & opinion to boot!).
OP - let us know how it works out for you. Search on here, some have made a compelling case for some “good will” by Porsche by telling their “story” (how many Porsches they’ve owned, if the bought them from dealer, services by dealer, etc.). Good luck!
I’ve owned everything from Ferrari gated manuals to Toyota manual 4 spds from the 80’s (notice how I said “owned” & and not “driven my friend’s for a few minutes” - yes, it does make a difference). The 7 spd in the 991 is a great modern manual transmission (much better than the 6spd in the 996, for example), even more so in the 991.2.
Having said that (and recognizing that I participated in it with the statement above)...it’s a shame that the OP was commenting about an issue he’s had with the PDK & was asking for other’s experiences and what he got instead was (ANOTHER) PDK vs manual transmission debate (rife with misinformation & opinion to boot!).
OP - let us know how it works out for you. Search on here, some have made a compelling case for some “good will” by Porsche by telling their “story” (how many Porsches they’ve owned, if the bought them from dealer, services by dealer, etc.). Good luck!
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,912
Likes: 4,040
From: Marineland FL
[QUOTE=PCA1983;16312399]
This is some of the most BS I have ever read - fingers are not made for shifting! My 7MT is sublime and I enjoy every minute driving it - Long live the manual.
PS - I have been driving sticks all my life and have had several P cars so don't go there.
Personally I cant justify owning something with a complicated black box that automatically costs $16-$20k to repair if anything at all goes wrong with it:QUOTE]
Just so you know two things:
2nd gear synchro failed in my 2015 C2S manual just past 3000 miles on the odometer, and the replacement tranny was $17.5k plus labor and taxes to install. Porsche dealers are not allowed to repair them.
Both old and new 7 speed manuals were crappy shifting. I'll never own a 7 speed manual like that again. I loved my Porsche 6 speed manuals, but the Greenies forced the 7 speed manual on us and it is total crap to drive, IMO.
And if you do the research here on Rennlist, you will find the PDK is repairable. Mine in my 2017 C2S is totally flawless at nearly 10,000 miles.
I now let my fingers do the shifting and it is amazingly satisfying. Don't let anybody BS you.
Just so you know two things:
2nd gear synchro failed in my 2015 C2S manual just past 3000 miles on the odometer, and the replacement tranny was $17.5k plus labor and taxes to install. Porsche dealers are not allowed to repair them.
Both old and new 7 speed manuals were crappy shifting. I'll never own a 7 speed manual like that again. I loved my Porsche 6 speed manuals, but the Greenies forced the 7 speed manual on us and it is total crap to drive, IMO.
And if you do the research here on Rennlist, you will find the PDK is repairable. Mine in my 2017 C2S is totally flawless at nearly 10,000 miles.
I now let my fingers do the shifting and it is amazingly satisfying. Don't let anybody BS you.
PS - I have been driving sticks all my life and have had several P cars so don't go there.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 722
From: arizona
porsche doesn't seem to want to repair either the pdk or the manual, that doesn't mean they are not repairable. anything is repairable and as these machines change hands from their first owners (who tend to be more concerned with warranties) to second+ owners (who tend to be more innovative about solutions to issues) processes and procedures for dealing with these issues will emerge. i wouldn't let a fear of a potential failure of one or the other make my choice for me.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 931
Likes: 185
porsche doesn't seem to want to repair either the pdk or the manual, that doesn't mean they are not repairable. anything is repairable and as these machines change hands from their first owners (who tend to be more concerned with warranties) to second+ owners (who tend to be more innovative about solutions to issues) processes and procedures for dealing with these issues will emerge. i wouldn't let a fear of a potential failure of one or the other make my choice for me.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 342
From: At the outer marker...
I looked into this a bit when buying my T - here is what I found:
(1) The manual and PDK share many parts, and the gear selection operation is similar and the actual gears are identical depending on the model.
(2) PDK has two lubricated sections, Manual has one.
(3) PDK has electromechanical actuation - failure of which is unique to the PDK, but is a relatively simple repair (swap the entire control module or the individual parts - if you can find them individually - I don't think they cary a Porsche part number)
(4) Failed synchros or gear swaps are a mess - because of the way the gears are pressed - they use an unusually high pressing force, which requires unique equipment. Several shops have done this work (mostly regearing or steel synchros for track work) so it can be done, but it isn't any cheaper than a core swap from Porsche.
(5) Clutches are service normally (similar effort to the G50 in my 993).
So, the verdict I reached was this - fixing a 991 Manual/PDK transmission is pricey...but then again, it always has been. A proper G50 rebuild for my 993 would cost $15K-20K today, if I needed it, and Porsche had (has?) no G50 swap program to make it easy. It seems like the future of Engine / Transmission work for these cars as they age is Factory supported core swaps (which is a good thing!) or highly specialized indy's offering fit-for-purpose customized rebuilds (which is also a good thing!) . Neither is going to be "cheap" though. So when I bought the T, I put ~$15K into a "just in case repair" investment account, so when something breaks in the future - I've got the scratch. Happily - that account has done well over the last few years.
Drive 'em and enjoy 'em...failures can happen (or not!) - just plan ahead and be prepared if you are the unlucky one!
Hope that helps someone!
cheers!
(1) The manual and PDK share many parts, and the gear selection operation is similar and the actual gears are identical depending on the model.
(2) PDK has two lubricated sections, Manual has one.
(3) PDK has electromechanical actuation - failure of which is unique to the PDK, but is a relatively simple repair (swap the entire control module or the individual parts - if you can find them individually - I don't think they cary a Porsche part number)
(4) Failed synchros or gear swaps are a mess - because of the way the gears are pressed - they use an unusually high pressing force, which requires unique equipment. Several shops have done this work (mostly regearing or steel synchros for track work) so it can be done, but it isn't any cheaper than a core swap from Porsche.
(5) Clutches are service normally (similar effort to the G50 in my 993).
So, the verdict I reached was this - fixing a 991 Manual/PDK transmission is pricey...but then again, it always has been. A proper G50 rebuild for my 993 would cost $15K-20K today, if I needed it, and Porsche had (has?) no G50 swap program to make it easy. It seems like the future of Engine / Transmission work for these cars as they age is Factory supported core swaps (which is a good thing!) or highly specialized indy's offering fit-for-purpose customized rebuilds (which is also a good thing!) . Neither is going to be "cheap" though. So when I bought the T, I put ~$15K into a "just in case repair" investment account, so when something breaks in the future - I've got the scratch. Happily - that account has done well over the last few years.
Drive 'em and enjoy 'em...failures can happen (or not!) - just plan ahead and be prepared if you are the unlucky one!
Hope that helps someone!
cheers!
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,467
Likes: 1,103
From: Southern California
The only thing about this issue is you never hear about it with other brands of cars. Alfa Romeo gets all this undeserved dependability crap, and I don't know of anybody with a Quadrifoglio that has had their ZF 8HP trans replaced. Or the Ferrari dual clutch. How people don't blow a gasket over this kind of treatment from a manufacturer is beyond me. Their answer? "We're Porsche" If Alfa Romeo had IMS issues or bore scoring issues...or PDK issues...the world would set them on FIRE. These f*ckers are coated with teflon it appears.
I was lucky. Under warranty. Porsches have leaky seals all the time. That was the problem with MINE. So a leaky seal = $15,000. It's another cash-grab by Porsche. You think replacing my seal cost that? Unacceptable. But it's a rich man's game.
I was lucky. Under warranty. Porsches have leaky seals all the time. That was the problem with MINE. So a leaky seal = $15,000. It's another cash-grab by Porsche. You think replacing my seal cost that? Unacceptable. But it's a rich man's game.
RL Community Team
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From: Nearby
The ZF 8HP is a slush box auto, completely different to a PDK. Ferrari's history is literally paved with broken gearboxes, cracked headers and blown valve guides/seals etc and that history continues to this day.
These cars are thoroughbreds and just like race horses one will break down occasionally. If you know a more reliable car that can perform like a 911 and yet be rock solid reliable let me know.
These cars are thoroughbreds and just like race horses one will break down occasionally. If you know a more reliable car that can perform like a 911 and yet be rock solid reliable let me know.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 342
From: At the outer marker...
The only thing about this issue is you never hear about it with other brands of cars. Alfa Romeo gets all this undeserved dependability crap, and I don't know of anybody with a Quadrifoglio that has had their ZF 8HP trans replaced. Or the Ferrari dual clutch. How people don't blow a gasket over this kind of treatment from a manufacturer is beyond me. Their answer? "We're Porsche" If Alfa Romeo had IMS issues or bore scoring issues...or PDK issues...the world would set them on FIRE. These f*ckers are coated with teflon it appears.
I was lucky. Under warranty. Porsches have leaky seals all the time. That was the problem with MINE. So a leaky seal = $15,000. It's another cash-grab by Porsche. You think replacing my seal cost that? Unacceptable. But it's a rich man's game.
I was lucky. Under warranty. Porsches have leaky seals all the time. That was the problem with MINE. So a leaky seal = $15,000. It's another cash-grab by Porsche. You think replacing my seal cost that? Unacceptable. But it's a rich man's game.
Ever look at BMW or Audi issues? Porsche looks rosey by comparison IMHO.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 215
From: New Hampshire
It’s sort of like plane crashes. When one goes down everybody hears about it. what they don’t hear about is the other 10,000 flights per day that don’t crash.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,467
Likes: 1,103
From: Southern California
The ZF 8HP is a slush box auto, completely different to a PDK. Ferrari's history is literally paved with broken gearboxes, cracked headers and blown valve guides/seals etc and that history continues to this day.
These cars are thoroughbreds and just like race horses one will break down occasionally. If you know a more reliable car that can perform like a 911 and yet be rock solid reliable let me know.
These cars are thoroughbreds and just like race horses one will break down occasionally. If you know a more reliable car that can perform like a 911 and yet be rock solid reliable let me know.
The ZF is a bad-*** box that is used in Aston Martins and the BMW M5. Please. It also allowed Alfa Romeo to set a new record at the Ring...kicking the sh*t out of dual-clutch Panamera Turbo by six seconds. And only got beat by a $200,000 limited production Jaguar using a ....whoops you got it....The same "slushbox" ZF. No dual clutch. No failures either I suspect.
If you mean 355 valve guides and exhaust manifolds, uh yeah but that was a loooooong time ago. Go to Ferrarichat.com and do a search looking for a transmission failure on a 458 or 488. Here on Rennlist they're stickys.
There are also stickys on IMS bearing failures, bore scoring, and they extended the warranty on the 991.1 GT3 for 10 years which offered because somebody woke up one day and said "Heck why not". . My Ferraris (post 360) didn't fail, and never had oil seals leak like ALL of my Porsches have except my newest 2012 997...but I just got it.
Hey man I dig my cars...including my Porsches. I think they abuse their customers, and the customers give them a pass. Like some Svengali thing.
The proof is looking at reality.. Multiple threads on every forum on the best way to get a Fidelity warranty at the cheapest price. Or learn to wrench.
RL Community Team
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From: Nearby
The ZF is a bad-*** box that is used in Aston Martins and the BMW M5. Please. It also allowed Alfa Romeo to set a new record at the Ring...kicking the sh*t out of dual-clutch Panamera Turbo by six seconds. And only got beat by a $200,000 limited production Jaguar using a ....whoops you got it....The same "slushbox" ZF. No dual clutch. No failures either I suspect.
If you mean 355 valve guides and exhaust manifolds, uh yeah but that was a loooooong time ago. Go to Ferrarichat.com and do a search looking for a transmission failure on a 458 or 488. Here on Rennlist they're stickys.
There are also stickys on IMS bearing failures, bore scoring, and they extended the warranty on the 991.1 GT3 for 10 years which offered because somebody woke up one day and said "Heck why not". . My Ferraris (post 360) didn't fail, and never had oil seals leak like ALL of my Porsches have except my newest 2012 997...but I just got it.
Hey man I dig my cars...including my Porsches. I think they abuse their customers, and the customers give them a pass. Like some Svengali thing.
The proof is looking at reality.. Multiple threads on every forum on the best way to get a Fidelity warranty at the cheapest price. Or learn to wrench.
If you mean 355 valve guides and exhaust manifolds, uh yeah but that was a loooooong time ago. Go to Ferrarichat.com and do a search looking for a transmission failure on a 458 or 488. Here on Rennlist they're stickys.
There are also stickys on IMS bearing failures, bore scoring, and they extended the warranty on the 991.1 GT3 for 10 years which offered because somebody woke up one day and said "Heck why not". . My Ferraris (post 360) didn't fail, and never had oil seals leak like ALL of my Porsches have except my newest 2012 997...but I just got it.
Hey man I dig my cars...including my Porsches. I think they abuse their customers, and the customers give them a pass. Like some Svengali thing.
The proof is looking at reality.. Multiple threads on every forum on the best way to get a Fidelity warranty at the cheapest price. Or learn to wrench.
You may have had good luck with your Ferraris but other have not, again just try Googling.
I have had great experiences with all of the 911s that I have own in the past thirty years. No major mechanical issues and never leaks. Also looking at this board there seem to be very few problems with 991s in general. I believe you are just trolling.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
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From: Southern California
No matter how much you want to talk it up the ZF 8 speed is still a slush box and there have been plenty of failures. Just Google "ZF 8HP failure" to see for yourself.
You may have had good luck with your Ferraris but other have not, again just try Googling.
I have had great experiences with all of the 911s that I have own in the past thirty years. No major mechanical issues and never leaks. Also looking at this board there seem to be very few problems with 991s in general. I believe you are just trolling.
You may have had good luck with your Ferraris but other have not, again just try Googling.
I have had great experiences with all of the 911s that I have own in the past thirty years. No major mechanical issues and never leaks. Also looking at this board there seem to be very few problems with 991s in general. I believe you are just trolling.
I did find this quote from Car and Driver :
"Has the dual-clutch transmission met its match, then? You might think that’s the case, given the recent defections by the Audi RS5 and the BMW M5, which switched from dual-clutch transmissions to ZF’s 8HP torque-converter automatics. That’s also the opinion of Andy Palmer, CEO of Aston Martin, who claims ZF’s 8HP is lighter, cheaper, and quicker than a dual-clutch transmission. “Ten years ago, [the dual-clutch] still looked like the transmission of the future. Now it is starting to look like the transmission of the past,” he tells us" https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/
And then there's this: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...eed-automatic/
There were 3.5 million 8HP transmissions made by a number of companies in 2017 alone. Shift quality and speed is up to the car maker's software and controllers.
But the real topic here is Porsche who makes more gross profit per car than any other manufacturer in the world. Given that there should be a more wallet-friendly cure for owners given the failure rate is higher than any trans I've heard of.
Even that crappy SMG.
It's like that in my industry and I hate it. The biggest and most expensive manufacturer of tube audio charges crazy money for out of warranty repairs, and their gear breaks more than any other tube brand because they don't put in simple protection circuits that would prevent the failure. And their product could sell for HALF what they charge and they would make buckets of money. It's about the benjamins. But everybody ooohs and aaahs about this brand EXCEPT electrical engineers that see that the Great Oz is behind the curtain. When you buy something for that much money your more likely to take the abuse.
I'm stlll a Porsche CAR fanboy. Porche business ethics, and caring for customers after the warranty expires? Not so much.
.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 992
From: Washington
You wanna hear about problems and a manufacturer not doing anything... Hop on the Vette forums (or any GM related forum). They've had nothing but problems with their A8 tranny/torque converter. Took literally years for them to come up with a "solution" that many still aren't convinced will solve it. There is even a class action suit.
Many Vette owners have had their TT or converter replaced not just once, but multiple times. That's not even getting into the other issues like bent/cracked rims, peeling paint, full leather dashes shrinking...
It's all about what you've been exposed to, not that there aren't problems. There are issues with every manufacturer. But you won't necessarily know about them unless you spend time on the forums.
Many Vette owners have had their TT or converter replaced not just once, but multiple times. That's not even getting into the other issues like bent/cracked rims, peeling paint, full leather dashes shrinking...
It's all about what you've been exposed to, not that there aren't problems. There are issues with every manufacturer. But you won't necessarily know about them unless you spend time on the forums.