I think there is a conflation of terms happening here.

 

^^^ not really in the base at ~1700RPM you're just about at the boost threshold and in the GTS its around 2100RPM (which is where the tacho needle sits in sport mode)- these are not small displacement engines with a single large turbo .

The issue at hand is, is the turbo lag prominent or barely detectable.

Reality when you are running above 3,500RPM there is little turbo lag (both technical and discernible) and thus both engine response and throttle response are excellent.

In my view the issue is very over blown - for example listen to the reviews of the 992 - its not even discussed.

 

Wow "lag" and "sudden change" simultaneously. Maybe the rest of this thread clears that up?

 

No rev matching on downshift without SC

 

That would explain it.

This has absolutely nothing to do with turbo lag.

 

Hi KA. Thanks for chiming in. I always get a good laugh from you.

Stopped by the 991 forum today to drop your usual spiel on 991.1 values, and how crappy the 991.2 is... Now we wait for the 991.1 exhaust sound posts with the word "visceral" used to describe it. Only a matter of time.

I seriously laughed out loud at your posts. You're one of those forum characters.

Cheers

 

 

Oh, precious sorcerer.... just because one is more visceral, doesn't make the other "crappy."

 

I never find any noticeable turbo lag on my 991.2 GTS, and I always scratch my head when seeing forum people said the 991.2 turbo engine is "laggy". But when I see someone trying to proof the turbo lag on a 991.2 by flooring the car in 7 gear at 1500 RPM, now I understand. People may do that in a PDK I assume? But I will never do that in a manual.

 

 

When I drive around in Normal, there is certainly some lag at low RPM but there is enough power with no boost at all to make reasonable progress. Sport and Sport+ almost completely get rid of any impression of lag and coupled with the PDK make it a complete non-issue. Coming on/off/on the throttle in S+ the power is just there when you want it.

Also, after many years of driving, I’ve come to realise that what I like in an engine/transmission is predictability: if you can successfully model what that combination will do in most circumstances, then you can adapt your driving style to it. I find the response of the .2 engine linear and although there may be some softness at low RPM, you can work round that and the power never comes in an uncontrollable rush, which in old turbo cars it did, often with no change in accelerator position. Throw in PASM/PDCC/RAS and the end result is something you have complete confidence in which reacts “naturally” to driver inputs.

 

 

I've driven both the old NA and new turbo motors.

The NA has plenty of hesitation from a dead stop. Once you get moving, its not a problem, though there are 'dead zones' with little torque. Its exaggerated with PDK because its quicker than the engine can rev, but using MT you probably wouldn't notice unless you're shifting hard and fast, but then at that point you're revving high so it doesn't matter. You can feel and see the RPMs build slower. After 4-5k RPM the NA is quick and sounds nice... below that it sounds like droning tuba and the acceleration adequate, but disappointing for sports car standards. Driving around you get caught in an awkward position of 'do lug the engine or do I get to 1st or 2nd gear and make it scream.' I don't mind revving and engine out, but lack of low end power and annoying drone at low RPMs is no fun in daily driving. As someone mentioned, I think this is 'variable cam timing' at work and its not perfect.

The turbo motor is actually faster to respond at a dead stop, however you can feel the spooling power. There is no lag getting on the throttle, but there is a build up (aka turbo spool) time that isn't instant. In the NA you feel all the engine is going to do instantly after variable cam timing hesitation and the turbo does the same, yet is able to build more power via turbo spool. Once you get to 3-4k RPMs, the 'build time' is quicker. Sports mode primes the turbos and makes the initial kick harder. Sports plus mode keeps turbos spooled 1-2 PSI always so the build time is even less. If you drive in normal mode and low RPMs, the 'build time' is noticeably slower...it feels like you got a gutless NA, but when the turbos start spooling (build up), there's lots of power even though you're lugging. NA people seem to expect is that if a turbo isn't spooled 100% when mashing on throttle, that's lag. Fact is you don't want instant 400 torque because its uncomfortable to use and would destroy engine components...there must be some transition. Either way, in a turbo car you get stuck in an awkward position feeling slower 'build time' at lower RPMs. You know its a turbos spooling at low RPM, but its so quick that you hardly notice or care even when lugging.

The solution for both engines is to stop caring about burning fuel and rev it 4k+. Anything lower than that is for 1st gear launching. However this isn't how practical people drive and nor is it a good on transmissions (mainly dual clutch) to be in a lower gear and not use the power. The .2 cars sport/ sports plus mode will keep you a gear lower and response time (including spool time) is close to instant that it doesn't matter. There is no lag like other cars (for example, in a GOLF GTI or AUDI product, you could floor it and then it can take a good 2-3 seconds before power even starts). In the .1 cars you must 'slowly' redline it, but in the .2 you can comfortable go about in quickly zipping mid RPMs. Stopping and going, the newer .2 engine feels so much quicker and its quiet when you want it (cruising etc).

Best way to describe to 'turbo haters' is imagine your NA, but its got a device (turbos) that allows it to continue to make additional power when your NA would have been out of steam because its suffocating. The whole engine becomes more dynamic and powerful...the more you rev the more the device is effective. Question is do you want a slower NA engine or faster NA engine that's got some spooling feel that takes it to next level? I think that if many people drove the old NA back to back to a new turbo engine, they'll appreciate the higher torque and its hard to go back (old car feels like it hesitates and drags its ***). Some people will ignore everything and just notice the sound difference where clearly the NA is louder and raspier...to them I'll say that it sounds like crap at low RPMs and really Porsche engine sound has never been all that great compared to many many cars. The .2 car sounds great revving out and not annoying when not.