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To begin it's not that I do not have the extra 1k to spend on the Vektor's but why if there is no difference? I refuse to browse boostaddict any longer due to sticky and his buddies over there bashing anything that they do not endorse and that's why I'm here but they troll over here too unfortunately. I could see Vektor's price being a little higher due to material differences but $1000 is ridiculous...
SPD: You know I value and respect your knowledge regarding chart reading
4 point 0's car is built for one purpose..
With Regard to the "largest radius bends, a merge with all runners entering around a central point instead of a flat merge" sounds good. Reads well. Looks nice. But, until it's proven to be more powerful
I have seen all of the scientific charts showing how the larger bends and pipe diameter allows for more air flow, less turbulence, etc. Again, if the headers are providing MORE air flow than the car can use than IF Vektor is providing even more air flow than the Kline, what difference does it make? If the car cannot use any more air than X, what difference does it make if the Vektors make 4 times X? The car can only flow so much..
Absolutely, my car is built for one purpose.....Speed and performance. We agree 100% on that.
I have seen the number crunching and it hurt my head honestly. Does Vektor headers create more power? Absolutely yes and has been proven. There was never any doubt. Larger radius curves, more direct path and the proper collector. Stay with me just one moment, because the FACT that they produce more Power may only be of interest to a very few people like myself.
For PTS that is nothing at all, as he is not interested in Max power. So to answer your question, at present, with the issues that have not been addressed there won't be much difference. But once these issue are fully addressed, when the throttle plates are not closing, when we have waste gate duty in the 90's instead of the 60's stage 2 and the 50's stage 1, the Headers will be the gift that keep on giving. (The gap between the two headers will widen.)
Is that worth $1,000? To me it is as our cars are $350,000 here. To you guys that get everything half price, maybe not. It's a question each individual needs to ask themself. If Max power is your end game, then you will want Vektor.
As for the hanging down, its only one tube on one side, and it is very minor. The guy that works on my car, said if it was ever going to be an issue, he would never have fit them. If he isn't concerned, I'm not concerned.
As PTS said, both Vektor and Kline are equal length and have the coating. That makes both of them at the fore front.
The only thing that concerns me is, PTS you said you doubted that headers did much. With Vektor it is instantly clear the car has more power. As soon as the car comes on boost its like yeah baby. Should you swap, NO. You are not after Max power, so there would be no point. Once we tune these things properly to the nth degree they will fly regardless.
I always like to say, To Each His Own and try to be respectful to everyone regarding decisions and such.. I can bet a whole lot more Kline Headers have been sold than Vektor mainly due to the price point. Even if Vektor Headers made a bit more power is it really worth the extra 1k? Well that for each person to decide for themselves..
I went with BMC to get Mac power/flow from an air filter
I went with Cobb the get max power from a Tune
And I went with Kline to get max power for my exhaust and Headers with a catted system.
I am not looking to MAX OUT the overall total power from my car with Intercoolers, bigger turbos, IPD Plenums, Meth Injection, Lowered coils, etc..
I AM looking to get the max power from the mods I DO decide to install and I will again repeat that the Vectors DO NOT produce any more power than the Kline Headers.
You and everyone else keeps saying the same thing over and over.. WHEN the car is optimized the gains will be even more dramatic. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
When Vektor made the headers there was no stage 1, or stage 2, they designed it on a SYTOCK MOTOR. So why cant they do and A/B Dyno with before and after on even a stock engine and prove gains?
Its just speculation after speculation. Bigger diameter tubes means better performance.. DYNO PROVE IT. Pro Tune will release greater gains from the Headers. DYNO PROVE IT.
Gentler bends will increase air flow.. DYNO PROVE IT. Improved Tunes will widen The gap between the two headers. DYNO PROVE IT.
Anyone looking to get headers is looking to get the most power and best sound, that has nothing to do with maxing out HP on an engine only getting the best performance available from the Header itself.
If Vektor could produce significantly more power, even a little more power than Kline, I would buy them. I keep telling you that. Its Vektor as a company that is shady AF and that I wont support.
"you said you doubted that headers did much. With Vektor it is instantly clear the car has more power."
Bull S--t. If your Aussie *** has the ability to feel 10hp then you should be a **** star. You think these headers unleash 50WHP? Nonsense. You hear noise, grumble, engine drone/vibration and THINK its power. It noise, not power and when you dyno test it the graph will show you a 9hp gain which you couldn't possibly notice no matter how much racing you did..
"Is that worth $1,000? To me it is as our cars are $350,000 here. To you guys that get everything half price, maybe not."
Are you going to insinuate that "us guys" are cheap or not willing to spend top dollar? Let me remind you something.. My PTS GTS Targa costs more bone stock than your car Plus every single mod you have done or ever will do at full retail. Keep that in mind. Akra, Vektor, Elephant arms.. add them all up and you still cant spend what my car cost with NO mods. This has nothing to do with the cost of the headers. If they were better I would buy them. If they were solid gold and someone told you they would produce 26hp more and cost $11,000 you would buy them, I would not. Let's not go there with this. More expensive doesnt always mean better and Most expensive doesnt either.
It's a question each individual needs to ask themself. If Max power is your end game, then you will want Vektor.
Why? Why if I want max power would I want Vektor? Has that been proven anywhere? Because of the gentle bends and larger diameter pipes? Please stop regurgitating the promotional manual.
If you only knew what I knew and if I could only tell you what I knew,,, we wouldnt be having this discussion. So, please someone dyno test them against one another already and lets get a winner.
Can you elaborate on this? Is it just a lip on the spoiler assembly face to direct more airflow into the IC's?
Originally, I just made some CAD for a lip that would be mounted on the front edge of the retractable wing. Saw something on BoostAddicts where somebody took some decorative stripping and made a make shift lip. This seemed to improve flow, so thought I could make something a bit more "refined" and not weird looking. Revising the CAD for it to make a split lip design, after looking a bit closer at the actual intake opening. Trying to make it as subtle as possible...
Additionally, while looking at the assembly diagrams for the grill and the wing it self, I found a few interesting routes to approach for this. First is actually creating a grill geometry that channels air better into the intake. Sketches so far resembled twin scoops which fed in...going to try and make some CAD when I get a chance.
The wing top is actually removable it seems...haven't verified this yet, but planning on it when I take the ECU out. Depending on how the stock geometry is of the wing top, I could create a wing with the lips/scoops built in. This would replace the wing portion currently in place. Would have to design it to not interfere with articulation as well as consider aero stuff....
I'll try and get a thread going once I get some more concrete stuff down
The tests have been done. You just refuse to acknowledge them. Vektor makes the most power. But wait lets log all the cars. Which one was fastest? The one with Vektor.
I could care less what you buy. You seem hell bent on trying to discredit anything you don't have. Here is the proof. Read the chart below. Vektor makes more power than Kline. Deal with it.
I do know which one makes more, It's Vektor. You can calim all sorts of excuses and shout it a thousand times across the board, but you are wrong. Here is the proof, Read it and weep.
Keep in mind I have paid over $280,000 USD for my car and bits. You have barely spent half of that. I was not infering you don't spend. But you do squeeze the dollar hard. Complaining about $1,000. I doubt its even that much difference.
Gee can my butt dyno guess which one has Vektor headers? No, but my eyes can clearly see that the one with Vektor headers for the WIN !! No surprise since it makes more power than Klein.
I wonder why the grey car is so fast, could it be the Vektor headers?
None of these tests were done by Vektor, all independent by our data guy. The data doesn't lie. But you keep ignoring it.
Originally, I just made some CAD for a lip that would be mounted on the front edge of the retractable wing. Saw something on BoostAddicts where somebody took some decorative stripping and made a make shift lip. This seemed to improve flow, so thought I could make something a bit more "refined" and not weird looking. Revising the CAD for it to make a split lip design, after looking a bit closer at the actual intake opening. Trying to make it as subtle as possible...
Additionally, while looking at the assembly diagrams for the grill and the wing it self, I found a few interesting routes to approach for this. First is actually creating a grill geometry that channels air better into the intake. Sketches so far resembled twin scoops which fed in...going to try and make some CAD when I get a chance.
The wing top is actually removable it seems...haven't verified this yet, but planning on it when I take the ECU out. Depending on how the stock geometry is of the wing top, I could create a wing with the lips/scoops built in. This would replace the wing portion currently in place. Would have to design it to not interfere with articulation as well as consider aero stuff....
I'll try and get a thread going once I get some more concrete stuff down
this is awesome! Thank you for doing this. I think the improvement on stock IC will be great too. I just ordered the silly tape stuff.
Gee can my butt dyno guess which one has Vektor headers? No, but my eyes can clearly see that the one with Vektor headers for the WIN !! No surprise since it makes more power than Klein.
I wonder why the grey car is so fast, could it be the Vektor headers?
None of these tests were done by Vektor, all independent by our data guy. The data doesn't lie. But you keep ignoring it.
Guess which one has Vektor
Now hang on a sec. That was a freshly tuned car in that graph. I'm going to do one more log in the same spot now that my ECU has learned.. No way I can let PTS be ahead of me.
It has been proven that my "tuned" car is improperly shifting in every gear. This is probably why the results look so close.
In addition. this chart ONLY shows speed at RPM. It would only make sense that 2 cars, both 300-350lbs lighter than mine, wold be moving faster at the same RPM.
Also, the targa has a higher drag coefficient than the coupe resulting in a 9% HP loss.
Still think its the headers? Heavier by 10%, Less Aero dynamic AND the car is mis shifting. The fact its so close is absurd to me, you guys should be worlds faster..
01-11-2019, 03:20 PM
