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Cobb Pro Tune for 991.2.. Its ready

Old 01-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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PTS-BRG
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Default Cobb Pro Tune for 991.2.. Its ready

As many of you are aware, I was one of the more critical individuals when it came to Cobb and the long delay between initial release, stage 2 and pro tuning. After posting here and on Cobb's Blog, I received a call from Jared at Cobb explaining to me how they are short staffed, working hard on getting everything released and apologizing so much that I felt horrible. Fast forward to the beginning of December..

I get an email from Jared asking me to install beta Maps for Stage 2. I jump at the opportunity. In return for the early map I voluntarily offer to send them all of the data logs to help Cobb in any way I could to fine tune Stage 2 and to look at my own personal information and see how my car was running. After 3 versions of Stage 2 beta's I am told that Mitch (the main software engineer over at Cobb) will be coming to the East Coast to do some pro tuning on a number of cars like Bentley's and BMW's, but if I would like to have my 991.2 Pro Tuned that Cobb would be willing to do it. The original plan was to do it near me at "The Shop" but, in the end the location was about 100 miles from me, each way, at 9am on Friday Morning. There was no way I wasn't going to take advantage of a Pro Tune by the software designer himself, so I made the trek and will display the chart below.

Now, I did speak briefly with Mitch. He worked on my tune for over 2 hours. He did say there was 10% more to get but, unless I plan on tracking the car or really wanted to extract every ounce of power, that this tune was solid, bullet proof, streetable, no CEL's and conservative. This is what I wanted and so I did not ask to get more aggressive. There is some more left for those of you looking to pump boost up a little more or add some more fuel to the mix, but for me at somewhere between 550-600HP to the wheels, I am more than happy with the results.

A few more tid bits... Mitch explained the throttle blade situation and that the fluctuation is normal and by design. There is no way to disable this "retarding" because it is designed to keep the power at a fixed level. So, when it exceeds this level it will retard and close and will remain open when it is below the target. I assume he raised the target to change how and where the blade closes, but it will still close. Mitch also went into some technical stuff that he discovered and incorporated into the Pro tune but, it escapes me as to what it was and since he basically said that he discovered it, I wouldn't want to disclose it even if I could remember There are a few neat little tricks and features Cobb is working on that I received. I will ask them if I can comment about them here and if so I will let you know about that later in the thread..

The dyno we used was known to be very low. The owner/operator said he generally sees other cars making 50-100 more HP on all other dynos. Why he doesnt calibrate it to be more accurate is beyond me, but the curves are what you need to see and not the numbers which will all vary from day to day and dyno to dyno. I finally got the forum members response to my Data Logs and will cut and paste below. 4 point 0 has also received them and will probably chime in when he gets them into a format he can read on his PC.

Comments from the forum member:

"Mitch did some fascinating stuff. From ~5000 rpm and up, he turned up the boost a couple psi. You can see the calculated torque is like 50 lb-ft more past 5k rpm. He was able to run more timing too in the 3k-4krpm range and from around 6300+rpm. If you look at the throttle angle, with the pro-tune, the throttle stays wide open until 5k rpms whereas the stage2 tune starts closing it at 3500rpm. The protune also keeps the A/F ratio right at 14.7 until 5k rpms. So very curious how Mitch was able to keep the A/F lean but extract a lot more torque/power. Almost no knock at all, got rid of like 90% of it. The intake air temp was even higher as your ICs were heat soaked but still made more power. The ambient was within 2 degrees from each run, 48F and 50F, so good enough. The wastegate duty cycle is staying higher. Mitch definitely did some magic. In my estimated dyno, I drew in the red lines using your road pull data and it shows the massive torque gain in the mid-range like the dyno did. I think on your previous run, you might have just gotten hit by a tail wind which caused the torque/power to go up. The red curve looks more realistic for the protune. So I may have to go back on my previous statement and say 550whp. But it's all just estimated. But like I said, the road doesn't lie so I plotted out time vs. engine speed. I plotted out how long it took to go from 3500-7500rpm. With your protune, it reached 7100rpm in about 4.6 seconds vs. 4.8 seconds for the stage2. And that's maybe with a tail wind on your earlier run, or maybe a slight downhill, so the gap is maybe even bigger. Either way, no doubt there is more power there."

I sent a bunch of data logs to some people and what you see below is the data from pull #12 versus pull #17. I honestly can't make much sense of it, but I hope the forum member is reading this and knows how grateful I am for the time he spent plotting and charting all of my data. THANKS AGAIN!!





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Old 01-06-2019, 11:59 AM
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Forgot to thank a few people and give them some public attention:

John Tecce from BGB Motorsports. He is not only a member of this forum, but a Cobb Dealer and professional Porsche racer. He was always available for me to ask questions, and I asked a lot. John, thank you for making me one of the first people in the world to get the Cobb Tune and for all of your help along the way. Good Luck at Sebring..

Sambo at By Design. Worked with me in getting my full Kline setup. Headers, Cats and Exhaust. Great guy to work with, available 24/7 for trouble shooting or any questions. The highest quality parts and customer service.

Mitch, Jared and Cobb. The best tuners, the best company and over the top customer support. I dogged you for being slow, but the end result is the best tune available for the 991.2 platform. Thanks again for everything..

Infomercial over now . I can highly recommend everyone above. You wont read about any horror stories regarding any of these companies, I vouch for them all. Thanks again.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quite the experience - lucky you! Thanks for the comprehensive share. Looking forward to staying 'tuned' to this story as you get more time with it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:19 PM
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Any update from Cobb on whether a direct OBD flash without pulling the ECU for unlock could be technically feasible in the future?
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:20 PM
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I have no direct word from Cobb, but I have gone on record that it will never happen. I dont believe it's ever going to be possible.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ClassJ View Post
Any update from Cobb on whether a direct OBD flash without pulling the ECU for unlock could be technically feasible in the future?
It's probably one of those "they won't know if it's possible until they've done it" things. So don't count on it ever happening.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:26 PM
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Thanks PTS-BRG for the detailed report. But you forgot the most important question......When can we have it?

I thought I would move my response on the other thread to here. It's more appropriate on this thread, as we were hi-jacking the other thread.

PTS-BRG was good enough to send me his logs on his Pro-Tune. Here is my response.

Ok my quick thoughts, on PTS-BRG logs.

It's still closing the throttle, but it is much better. Shuts down to 50% at one point, but back up to 70% in the top end.
Boost is up 1 psi. Peak waste gate duty is up to 64% compared to 55% on my car with stage 1.
Boost control in the middle is why its shutting the throttle by the looks of it.
Looks like the car hasn't fully learnt yet as AFR is still holding closed loop.
Boost control still needs some work and so does the torque management.
The dip from 3,300 -4300 will go away when the timing goes back in there and the boost is sorted out.
But over all its a far better file.

Remember after Stage 2 we get in to "The law of diminishing returns." Meaning more effort, time an money is spent for smaller gains. With that in mind, Waste gate duty at 64% whilst that is a big improvement, I won't consider the job done until we get that in the 90's. It may just take more Octane and more boost, and a few other tweaks, but its not done until its done. And until its done, we don't need to be thinking of stage 4 up graded Turbo's.

The most impressive part is from 5,000 to 6,500 it is flat across the top. In case you don't know what tat means, it means you win races. Dyno queen cars that tout high power, have a line that goes up and then down. They have a big number for about a 500rpm rev range or even less. They spin the wheels and loose races, but tout a large number. Strong, powerful reliable cars that win races, have a flat curve across the top like this one.

Everything can be improved on, given enough hours. But this is a very good improvement, and will be more than enough for most people. I am a believer of Kaisen. Constant and never ending improvement. I will work on refining the tune until I no longer have the car.

So I ask again, When can we have it
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:29 PM
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I was told that they will be on time with their time frame this time and it will be available before the end of the month.
Thats what they had told me, but I dont work for Cobb so don't shoot the messenger.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PTS-BRG View Post
I was told that they will be on time with their time frame this time and it will be available before the end of the month.
Thats what they had told me, but I dont work for Cobb so don't shoot the messenger.
Last message from them said, Stage 2 (The week of 7th - 11th Jan) That's this week, for Stage 2 (It's already Monday here GMT +10) . And Pro-Tuning the End of January.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:32 PM
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Stage 2 is finished. Pro Tune by end of the month. I suspect they will release Stage 2 this week and Pro Tune by end of month..
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PTS-BRG View Post
Stage 2 is finished. Pro Tune by end of the month. I suspect they will release Stage 2 this week and Pro Tune by end of month..
Sweet. This was there last communication.

Here's some updates most of you have been looking forward to. Stage 2 OTS GTS maps have been completed and once some required internal processes are completed we'll be releasing an Accessport firmware update that will include 991.2 Base, S, and GTS Stage 2 maps. I can't provide you with a firm release date at this time due to the time of year and people's vacations, etc but worst case they'll be in firmware the week of the 7th-11th. In the meantime, here are some dyno graphs from our testing:
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:22 PM
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Thank you for the update and excited for you Cobb guys. Please go out and get some times so we can compare. I just wanted to say Protomotive has successfully kept the throttle plate angle wide open at 87% through entire rev range above a certain rpm of around 3500. Would love to see what your 60-130 times are PTS!!! Congrats!
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:28 PM
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Maybe the guys who have my data logs can tell you about the throttle plate percentage but, I have no idea,
If you like I can do some data logs from 60-130 on the Cobb AP and provide the logs to 4 point 0?
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:50 PM
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PTS - From what I have seen, you can enjoy having the fastest GTS on the planet for the next few weeks. Mitch did a great job on the pro-tune, with the limited time he had.

But it is very early days. Wait until we have had a full race season with Pro-tuning. All of the minor issues will be solved and refined, again and again.

All you need to do at present is get some miles up, and allow all of the changes to fully adapt. Enjoy.
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:51 PM
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Why don't you just attach the logs in a file form here on rennlist? Just the excel file itself.. Or perhaps a screenshot..
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