Question from a person new to Porsche - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices
991
Sponsored by:

Question from a person new to Porsche

Old 10-11-2018, 12:41 AM
  #1  
chucknorrisjr
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 25
Default Question from a person new to Porsche

My current Mercedes lease is running out, so I decided last week I'd get either a Cayman or a Jaguar F-Type. I went to both Porsche and Jaguar dealers today and did test drives. The Porsche salesman spent about 2.5 hours with me, filling me in on all this info about the brand I had no idea about. My notes are below and I was hoping since there are so many experts here, if anyone gets a chance to review them, if they could let me know if what I was told checks out?

-Porsche salesman says Jaguars depreciate much worse than Porsches. They still have electronics problems, so people lease them, then don't buy them out at the end cause they don't want to stay in Jaguar after their bad experience, so dealers then have to discount them further to sell them used. This is also why you can get much better leases on Jaguars than Porsches
-Porsches do not lease well; it's better to own
-Macans, Cayennes, and base Caymans depreciate like normal cars. Base 911s depreciate better than normal cars. Special editions 911s can actually appreciate, allowing you to basically drive the car for free.
-While we were walking the lot, a guy pulled up in a Boxster Spyder 2011. My salesman said that car is still worth MSRP even after all these years.
-In terms of value and investment, salesman recommended not buying new Cayman or 911 like my original plan was. He said if you only want to drive the car for 2 years and then get rid of it, buy a preowned Cayman or 911. If you intend to hold for 5 years or more, he had 3 recommendations:
-1) Buy a Carrera T (dealer had 5 on the lot all for around $130k) and if you drive it normally, it will dip in value for the first 2 or so years. If after 2 years you put it in your garage and don't drive it much by year 5 it'll be back around MSRP. Said Porsche is only making them for 2018 and 2019, and while they haven't released the numbers, it will be less than a 1000 production run. The T hasn't been built since 1960s so this car is likely to be a collectors item.
-2) Buy a 2012 911 997 Turbo S with 14k miles which he had on the lot for $115k. MSRP was $165k. He said the value was bottoming out now, but going forward the car was going to appreciate
-3) Buy a 2018 911 991 GT3 for $203k with 8k miles with some sort of special green paint job. He said, this thing was a sure bet. He said it will never dip below MSRP.
-He said if you have the money, option 3 is the surest bet, followed by 2, then 1.
-If I don't want to spend that kind of money, then he recommended a CPO 2016 911 991 with 3.4l engine and premium package with 5k miles for $85k
-The big risk factor on the above "investment" cars is that if you ever get in an accident, there goes all your collector premium, as collectors discount cars with accident histories by huge amounts.
-One way to mitigate this risk is the lease, drive the car as your daily, if you get in an accident, give the car back at term end, if not, then buy out the car, and wait for appreciation. He didn't necessarily recommend this, but said it's something some people do.

So after all this my head was spinning, as I had no idea how complex and involved the Porsche market is. I like getting good value though, so I'm willing to put some time into understanding this market, though I'm sure it takes years to really know it. After test driving the Jaguar F-Type, while I think it's a nice looking car, the Porsche drives, sounds, and looks better (more classic and refined), so I'm inclined to go with Porsche assuming I can find a good deal. My thoughts as of now, which are easily subject to change based on any input from the experts here is either do a 2 or 3 year old preowned Cayman or 911 or the Carrera T. Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!

chucknorrisjr is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:44 AM
  #2  
ipse dixit
Super User
 
ipse dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,938
Default

Before you go into the details about price, depreciation, new, used, CPO, etc., ask yourself this question first.

"What is my budget for my first Porsche?"

Once you have that answer, the questions that you need to ask and answer will be much much more narrow.
ipse dixit is online now  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:48 AM
  #3  
Psorcery
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

Most of what he said is true.. Not sure on points labeled as 1 2 and 3. The GT3 will not hold above 200k. The 2012 turbo will continue to depreciate. The 992 confirmed to have a T in it's lineup. It will not sell back at MSRP.

Jaguar? *GAG*PUKE*
Psorcery is online now  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:50 AM
  #4  
chucknorrisjr
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 25
Default

My budget allows all the options I listed in my post, but given that I know nothing about the Porsche market, my gut says shelling out $200k for a first time stab at an "investment" car doesn't seem wise.
chucknorrisjr is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:53 AM
  #5  
chucknorrisjr
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 25
Default

Originally Posted by Psorcery View Post
Most of what he said is true.. Not sure on points labeled as 1 2 and 3. The GT3 will not hold above 200k. The 2012 turbo will continue to depreciate. The 992 confirmed to have a T in it's lineup. It will not sell back at MSRP.

Jaguar? *GAG*PUKE*
Haha, Jaguar's aren't well liked around these parts? Well, your reply makes my decision much easier : ) I was only interested in points 1, 2, and 3 cause they were pitched as investments, but if they'll depreciate just the same, I'd be just as happy in a preowned base Cayman or base 911. I will never be a super car guy. I like Porsches for the way they look aesthetically and the way they drive, but I don't need super fast, or care about things like carbon fiber seats, special steering wheels, special paint, spoilers, trim, etc. To be honest, I prefer the looks of the base cars to any of the super expensive GT models with all the bells and whistles. I know I'm weird : )
chucknorrisjr is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:14 AM
  #6  
evilfij
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
evilfij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the internet
Posts: 2,962
Default

Let me guess the dealer: the Porsche exchange?

A T will never get back to MSRP, they will continue to build them in 992.

A 2012 turbo S still has about $70k in depreciation.

The green GT3 with “8000” miles for $208k was run hard and in snow and in dirt. Not that makes it a bad car, but it’s not a no lose proposition. A paint to sample GT3 from 2014/5 is now $140k or so, so figure you will be down $60k in three years.

A 2011 boxster spyder is not an MSRP car.

Buy a cayman/boxster, beat them up to 9-10% off and that is the least depreciation. Better yet, get a slightly used one.
evilfij is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:17 AM
  #7  
Turbodan
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Turbodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto Canada eh!
Posts: 8,559
Default

buy the car you would like to drive regularly. Don't worry about investment. But the car to drive and have fun. Use stocks, real estate for investment.
Turbodan is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:30 AM
  #8  
chucknorrisjr
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 25
Default

Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Let me guess the dealer: the Porsche exchange?

A T will never get back to MSRP, they will continue to build them in 992.

A 2012 turbo S still has about $70k in depreciation.

The green GT3 with “8000” miles for $208k was run hard and in snow and in dirt. Not that makes it a bad car, but it’s not a no lose proposition. A paint to sample GT3 from 2014/5 is now $140k or so, so figure you will be down $60k in three years.

A 2011 boxster spyder is not an MSRP car.

Buy a cayman/boxster, beat them up to 9-10% off and that is the least depreciation. Better yet, get a slightly used one.
The dealer was Champion Porsche in Florida. Wow, so somehow you know the exact green GT3 I'm talking about? Is that cause there's only one?

Anyway, great replies so far. Super helpful and direct, and makes my life much easier not having to worry about "investing" in a car.

So I like the Cayman but only the latest 718 refresh, so for best value, I'd assume I should go for a CPO 2017 model year instead of 2018? As for 911, I imagine model year 2015, 2016 would be best value in terms of the depreciation curve. If I'm only going to keep the car 2 or 3 years and then sell, since 911s have better depreciation curves, might I end up losing the same amount whether I go with a 2017 Cayman or a 2015/2016 911, in which case I should just buy a used 911?
chucknorrisjr is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:39 AM
  #9  
vodkag
User
 
vodkag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: So Cali
Posts: 337
Default

Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Let me guess the dealer: the Porsche exchange?

A T will never get back to MSRP, they will continue to build them in 992.

A 2012 turbo S still has about $70k in depreciation.

The green GT3 with “8000” miles for $208k was run hard and in snow and in dirt. Not that makes it a bad car, but it’s not a no lose proposition. A paint to sample GT3 from 2014/5 is now $140k or so, so figure you will be down $60k in three years.

A 2011 boxster spyder is not an MSRP car.

Buy a cayman/boxster, beat them up to 9-10% off and that is the least depreciation. Better yet, get a slightly used one.
Originally Posted by Psorcery View Post
Most of what he said is true.. Not sure on points labeled as 1 2 and 3. The GT3 will not hold above 200k. The 2012 turbo will continue to depreciate. The 992 confirmed to have a T in it's lineup. It will not sell back at MSRP.

Jaguar? *GAG*PUKE*
+1 on both of those. There are P-cars that will retain value...but very rarely..... I understand we all want the least amount of depreciation.......but the truth is cars are a depreciating asset (with very few exceptions)

you should buy a car for pleasure.......not investment (and maybe the rate of depreciation to be a factor to be consider)

hope that helps


vodkag is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:40 AM
  #10  
good2go
User
 
good2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 150
Default

Very few people get the opportunity to own a car that appreciates. Cars that appreciate are also worth more if you don't drive them. Do you want a car you can't drive?

If a dealer tried to sell me on a car appreciating, I would walk out or ask for a different sales person. Cars depreciate. Measure the value of the car by how many times you get to fill the tank. Drive it, enjoy it.
good2go is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:41 AM
  #11  
good2go
User
 
good2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 150
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by vodkag View Post
+1 on both of those. There are P-cars that will retain value...but very rarely..... I understand we all want the least amount of depreciation.......but the truth is cars are a depreciating asset (with very few exceptions)

you should buy a car for pleasure.......not investment (and maybe the rate of depreciation to be a factor to be consider)

hope that helps
+1
good2go is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:58 AM
  #12  
hbear
User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
Default

Like any car, used is a better value as depreciation is largest in the early days. However Porsche does a GREAT job at allowing owners to customize their cars through the order process and getting a used car that is exactly what you want is slim.

If you are fussy about paint, interior and all those things, factory order is the way to go.

All cars will depreciate, those that don’t are rare and don’t get driven. If you want to appreciate the car and actually drive it, I would suggest not worrying about it as an “investment”. For me my 911 payoff is the joy on my face when I drive it....and I have zero concern about “saving” it for the next buyer.

That being said, the driving dynamic is different between the Cayman, and different 911 variants. If suggest you look for the car that works best for your needs and joy levels and go from there.

My quick advice, the 911 is the classic and icon. The caymans are nice but they aren’t 911s and not the cars most of us dreamt about as kids. There are no bad 911s, just different variants and flavours that suit your tastes. I’m picky about what I get, so I ordered new from the factory to get exactly what I wanted.....and the joy I get every time I crank the key tells me the price is more than worth it for me.
hbear is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:00 AM
  #13  
digits
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
digits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 321
Default

Wow, my head would be spinning, too.
Take your time.
Generally speaking, cars depreciate.
Your best value will be found in a CPO car.
Fair valuation of the cars can be tricky given the wide range of options.
Folks on this forum can help (check out the sticky Hot For Sale (HFS) thread).
Porsche's lease terms aren't very competitive (i.e. kind of pricey) compared to mainstream automakers.
Avoid jumping into appreciation/depreciation/speculation games on "special" models until you are very familiar with Porsche's complex lineup of vehicles.
digits is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:00 AM
  #14  
evilfij
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
evilfij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the internet
Posts: 2,962
Default

Originally Posted by chucknorrisjr View Post
The dealer was Champion Porsche in Florida. Wow, so somehow you know the exact green GT3 I'm talking about? Is that cause there's only one?

Anyway, great replies so far. Super helpful and direct, and makes my life much easier not having to worry about "investing" in a car.

So I like the Cayman but only the latest 718 refresh, so for best value, I'd assume I should go for a CPO 2017 model year instead of 2018? As for 911, I imagine model year 2015, 2016 would be best value in terms of the depreciation curve. If I'm only going to keep the car 2 or 3 years and then sell, since 911s have better depreciation curves, might I end up losing the same amount whether I go with a 2017 Cayman or a 2015/2016 911, in which case I should just buy a used 911?
So I stand corrected. Apparently there are two paint to sample green GT3 for sale with 8000 miles. Call me surprised. I don’t know the one at champion. The one at Porsche exchange was plastered all over Instagram in snow and dirt.

2017 cayman is a 718 and there are some good deals to be had. 2012.5-2016 911 are all pretty similar such that other than age there is not a lot of reason to get a newer one if all you care about is depreciation. One that is older has depreciated more but you end up crossing over with higher maintenance and repair costs. You are going to lose money regardless so just get what you want. I mean I am buying a new GT3 and figure I am lighting $10s of thousands on fire in the first year. On the other end of the spectrum, my 1995 993, I have enjoyed for 18 months and has cost me a service and a few odds and ends I am pretty sure I can sell it for what I paid.

Oh, and used Jags are a great value. I bought one at 5 years old at 75% off MRSP and have enjoyed it for 6 years and it’s probably lost about $10k in value during that time.
evilfij is offline  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:01 AM
  #15  
Smoltz
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 212
Default

Some people get caught up in all the dollars and cents and depreciation, and GT car this and PTS that. Others couldn't care less. You don't have to become an expert on the Porsche market to purchase and enjoy the car.

With that being said, it seems like you should get behind the wheel of some vehicles and see what you like. If you could buy any new Porsche at MSRP and you cared only about deprecation, a GT3 might be the best move, but it's pretty hard edged for most people, and you might not really enjoy it, so better to figure out what you want and like and go from there.

I would set aside the Porsche market aspect of things for the moment, hone in what you're looking for (coupe, convertible, mid engine, rear engine, more of a grand touring car or more of a pure sport car or track day car), and then compare and contrast once you have narrowed it down to a couple models including the market factors if you so choose.
Smoltz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: