Finally got to drive a T
10-01-2018, 12:31 PM
#1
RL Community Team
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Finally got to drive a T
This weekend, I was able to get a short bit of time behind the wheel of a local Carrera T that's up for sale. It's pretty lightly equipped. Has 4 ways, PDK, no roof, no RAS. By way of comparison, my 911 is a 991.1 Carrera S Cab with Manual, 14 ways, pretty loaded.
Overall, I liked the T. I think I always had pretty realistic expectations about what it is and what it isn't, and therefore could approach it with an open mind. I never bought into the hype of it being a junior GT3 Touring. Nor did I condemn it for being a useless marketing exercise. I've previously driven a 2017 Carrera with PDK, a 2017 Carrera S with manual, a 2017 Carrera S with PDK and SPASM and if I remember right, a 2017 Carrera S with PDK. As I start to get more experience with the 3.0T powertrain, I'm starting to appreciate it more. My daily driver is a 2017 GTI Sport so I know how a small displacement turbo engine feels with significant lag, LOL.
Overall, I really enjoyed the T. With the engine being broken in, I was able to push it a little bit, although there really are no good roads to open up a sports car in North Houston, unless you travel out into the boondocks a ways. Certainly nothing suitable within test drive distance. So I couldn't really romp on it too hard, but was able to throw it through a short section of twisties.
I'm finding that the engine is really nice. Certainly it has more usable torque than my 3.8L S, which is definitely a benefit in everyday driving. I think it lacks some of that magic in the last 1,000 RPM that the N/A engines do, but that could very well be down to the lack of soundtrack. The car, even with the PSE active, is much quieter than the N/A engines, which makes me a bit sad. Certainly in a cab, even with top up, I get quite a bit of engine noise but I think the thing that makes the most difference is the sound symposer. I feel like with the new powertrains, whatever the sound symposer is doing, it's not doing much of. Or there isn't much there to amplify. It really lacks that guttural growl. However, it still spins very sweetly and pulls very hard toward the top end. I feel like it's a better engine for 90% of us who are doing most of our driving on normal roads where you can't rip. I've often complained about having a manual transmission in a high peak power / torque engine with gearing that sees 2nd redline at just under 75 MPH. It's kind of soul sucking in most situations, IMO. Glorious when you can open it up, but unfortunately that's not very often. I can certainly see the appeal of the powertrain, and I absolutely would buy a car with it. I might even trade my car out because of it, to be honest, but that's because my use case dictates I'll get more enjoyment out of the car at lower RPM. Nevertheless, I didn't intend to make this a .1 vs. .2 debate. I realized I probably opened up that box, but I'm just making observations. Both are wonderful for their own reasons, and there are no bad choices.
Overall the car feels very light and lithe. I realize that stating that coming from a Carrera S cab which is heavier and more flexible is stating the obvious, but I've driven plenty of coupes before. Both before and after owning my car. Naturally any coupe is going to be lighter and stiffer, but the T is set up really sweetly. For sure, the SPASM ride is a bit on the stiff side, but I feel like it's a "well resolved" version of stiff. My Cab at times has trouble dealing with the broken concrete "pavement" that we have around town. It can sometimes feel harsh over the sharp impacts of seams, potholes, structures and lane marker dots. But at the same time, in general driving, the suspension has a good bit of roll to it and an overall softness. Whereas the T feels stiff, but not punishingly so. The only place I noticed it was over the road marker bumps. In normal driving, it has a good compliance. It has a quick motion of travel over small amplitude, high frequency bumps (i.e. your fat is gonna get a jiggle) but you don't feel like it's punshing. It feels composed and well thought out.
The steering is wonderful. Ironically the wheel is smaller in thickness than my Sport design wheel. But the steering is more direct, more quick, and has more feedback. It feels good.
The PDK is really good. Overall, it's getting close in quickness to a 991.1 PDKS in the GT3. It's not quite there for sure, but it's very quick to shift, even by Porsche PDK standards, and does an excellent job of separating normal, sport and sport plus. I feel like I would drive the car 85% in Sport, saving normal for long highway hauls and Sport Plus for max attack.
The interior...isn't for everyone. I like it, but I'm used to cloth in my GTI. I don't feel like it's the Sport Tex itself, I think it's the pinstriping. I showed it to my wife, and she hated it. And that was the silver striping. I showed her the yellow and it was game over, LOL. But she's not into yellow. I feel like it adds a sporty touch to the car, and goes with the purpose of the vehicle.
The lightweight glass and reduced sound deadening definitely let in more noise than in other .2 coupes I've driven. Which is nice. I'm used to the noise from my Cab.
In a way, it reminds me a lot of my GTI. The GTI is fun as hell and feels very light and agile. It's a little stiff, but not punishingly so, and rewards you with good use of that suspension setup. It always feels fun and frisky. The T had that same feeling, but obviously several levels up. Just makes you want to wring it out every time you drive it.
Overall, a great package. Could you get the same effect in an identically equipped Carrera? Probably you'd get pretty close. But I think if you want to get something cool and performance oriented, the T still makes a lot of sense. Plus you can get access to buckets if you really are looking for more of a canyon carver than an everyday machine. If I didn't put my kids in the back, often, I'd think hard about the T with manual trans and buckets that's sitting at a local dealer. HARD. It's a great package if you're just looking to get a performance oriented 911.
And therein lies the problem. Having owned a 911 now for two years, I get it. I get the 911 "disease". There are just so many permutations and combinations of 911 flavors. You want to try them all! I love my C2S Cab but I'd love to have another performance oriented 911 in the stable with it! LOL. Great problem to have, but expensive.
In any event, I'm glad Porsche made the T. I think it's a great car that gives you a lot of the GT ethos in the normal Carrera package. Very true to the 911's roots. Bravo!
Overall, I liked the T. I think I always had pretty realistic expectations about what it is and what it isn't, and therefore could approach it with an open mind. I never bought into the hype of it being a junior GT3 Touring. Nor did I condemn it for being a useless marketing exercise. I've previously driven a 2017 Carrera with PDK, a 2017 Carrera S with manual, a 2017 Carrera S with PDK and SPASM and if I remember right, a 2017 Carrera S with PDK. As I start to get more experience with the 3.0T powertrain, I'm starting to appreciate it more. My daily driver is a 2017 GTI Sport so I know how a small displacement turbo engine feels with significant lag, LOL.
Overall, I really enjoyed the T. With the engine being broken in, I was able to push it a little bit, although there really are no good roads to open up a sports car in North Houston, unless you travel out into the boondocks a ways. Certainly nothing suitable within test drive distance. So I couldn't really romp on it too hard, but was able to throw it through a short section of twisties.
I'm finding that the engine is really nice. Certainly it has more usable torque than my 3.8L S, which is definitely a benefit in everyday driving. I think it lacks some of that magic in the last 1,000 RPM that the N/A engines do, but that could very well be down to the lack of soundtrack. The car, even with the PSE active, is much quieter than the N/A engines, which makes me a bit sad. Certainly in a cab, even with top up, I get quite a bit of engine noise but I think the thing that makes the most difference is the sound symposer. I feel like with the new powertrains, whatever the sound symposer is doing, it's not doing much of. Or there isn't much there to amplify. It really lacks that guttural growl. However, it still spins very sweetly and pulls very hard toward the top end. I feel like it's a better engine for 90% of us who are doing most of our driving on normal roads where you can't rip. I've often complained about having a manual transmission in a high peak power / torque engine with gearing that sees 2nd redline at just under 75 MPH. It's kind of soul sucking in most situations, IMO. Glorious when you can open it up, but unfortunately that's not very often. I can certainly see the appeal of the powertrain, and I absolutely would buy a car with it. I might even trade my car out because of it, to be honest, but that's because my use case dictates I'll get more enjoyment out of the car at lower RPM. Nevertheless, I didn't intend to make this a .1 vs. .2 debate. I realized I probably opened up that box, but I'm just making observations. Both are wonderful for their own reasons, and there are no bad choices.
Overall the car feels very light and lithe. I realize that stating that coming from a Carrera S cab which is heavier and more flexible is stating the obvious, but I've driven plenty of coupes before. Both before and after owning my car. Naturally any coupe is going to be lighter and stiffer, but the T is set up really sweetly. For sure, the SPASM ride is a bit on the stiff side, but I feel like it's a "well resolved" version of stiff. My Cab at times has trouble dealing with the broken concrete "pavement" that we have around town. It can sometimes feel harsh over the sharp impacts of seams, potholes, structures and lane marker dots. But at the same time, in general driving, the suspension has a good bit of roll to it and an overall softness. Whereas the T feels stiff, but not punishingly so. The only place I noticed it was over the road marker bumps. In normal driving, it has a good compliance. It has a quick motion of travel over small amplitude, high frequency bumps (i.e. your fat is gonna get a jiggle) but you don't feel like it's punshing. It feels composed and well thought out.
The steering is wonderful. Ironically the wheel is smaller in thickness than my Sport design wheel. But the steering is more direct, more quick, and has more feedback. It feels good.
The PDK is really good. Overall, it's getting close in quickness to a 991.1 PDKS in the GT3. It's not quite there for sure, but it's very quick to shift, even by Porsche PDK standards, and does an excellent job of separating normal, sport and sport plus. I feel like I would drive the car 85% in Sport, saving normal for long highway hauls and Sport Plus for max attack.
The interior...isn't for everyone. I like it, but I'm used to cloth in my GTI. I don't feel like it's the Sport Tex itself, I think it's the pinstriping. I showed it to my wife, and she hated it. And that was the silver striping. I showed her the yellow and it was game over, LOL. But she's not into yellow. I feel like it adds a sporty touch to the car, and goes with the purpose of the vehicle.
The lightweight glass and reduced sound deadening definitely let in more noise than in other .2 coupes I've driven. Which is nice. I'm used to the noise from my Cab.
In a way, it reminds me a lot of my GTI. The GTI is fun as hell and feels very light and agile. It's a little stiff, but not punishingly so, and rewards you with good use of that suspension setup. It always feels fun and frisky. The T had that same feeling, but obviously several levels up. Just makes you want to wring it out every time you drive it.
Overall, a great package. Could you get the same effect in an identically equipped Carrera? Probably you'd get pretty close. But I think if you want to get something cool and performance oriented, the T still makes a lot of sense. Plus you can get access to buckets if you really are looking for more of a canyon carver than an everyday machine. If I didn't put my kids in the back, often, I'd think hard about the T with manual trans and buckets that's sitting at a local dealer. HARD. It's a great package if you're just looking to get a performance oriented 911.
And therein lies the problem. Having owned a 911 now for two years, I get it. I get the 911 "disease". There are just so many permutations and combinations of 911 flavors. You want to try them all! I love my C2S Cab but I'd love to have another performance oriented 911 in the stable with it! LOL. Great problem to have, but expensive.
In any event, I'm glad Porsche made the T. I think it's a great car that gives you a lot of the GT ethos in the normal Carrera package. Very true to the 911's roots. Bravo!
10-01-2018, 12:50 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Fair and balanced. Well done!
I think you'd gain another level of appreciation for what they've done if you get the chance to take a MT T out for a spin. I know I did. In your situation, if you can swing it, a few years from now and with the right spec, I definitely think the T would fill that "more sporty" oriented gap you are looking for... and someone else eats the depreciation!
It won't be mine, though. I'm hanging onto this one! My Spec...
S
I think you'd gain another level of appreciation for what they've done if you get the chance to take a MT T out for a spin. I know I did. In your situation, if you can swing it, a few years from now and with the right spec, I definitely think the T would fill that "more sporty" oriented gap you are looking for... and someone else eats the depreciation!
It won't be mine, though. I'm hanging onto this one! My Spec...
S
10-01-2018, 01:24 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
10-01-2018, 04:30 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Needsdecaf - great write up and you hit the nail on the head for me with a couple of personal issues I have with the T. I really think that if one orders a T, one should get all the T stuff, like LWB, RWS and off course the MT with the slightly lower gearing and LSD. But I had a base 16 with MT and I absolutely HATED that transmission. Oh it shifted buttery smooth but as you mentioned the gearing is way too tall to really have fun unless you are on a track. And with the 7 speeds, the gates are too close together to just slam it into gear and go without paying extra special attention before you release the clutch. So no problem right? Just order a T with a PDK. But in my mind that T should have a MT.
Also, if one gets a T, one NEEDS the T interior. But the T interior is not avail with the LWBs. If one gets those (and I think they are almost required) one has to accept alcantera - no Sportec for you. LOL
I realize these are all first world conflicts I have created in my own head but they are just enough to keep me from ordering one and having me back looking at another Base with PDK and Sportec etc....
Anyway, thank you for your write-up.
Also, if one gets a T, one NEEDS the T interior. But the T interior is not avail with the LWBs. If one gets those (and I think they are almost required) one has to accept alcantera - no Sportec for you. LOL
I realize these are all first world conflicts I have created in my own head but they are just enough to keep me from ordering one and having me back looking at another Base with PDK and Sportec etc....
Anyway, thank you for your write-up.
10-01-2018, 05:02 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Nice write up Needsdecaf, when the weather clear I let you drive my MT if you are interested so you can add to your comparison.
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10-01-2018, 06:32 PM
#8
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fair and balanced. Well done!
I think you'd gain another level of appreciation for what they've done if you get the chance to take a MT T out for a spin. I know I did. In your situation, if you can swing it, a few years from now and with the right spec, I definitely think the T would fill that "more sporty" oriented gap you are looking for... and someone else eats the depreciation!
It won't be mine, though. I'm hanging onto this one! My Spec...
S
I think you'd gain another level of appreciation for what they've done if you get the chance to take a MT T out for a spin. I know I did. In your situation, if you can swing it, a few years from now and with the right spec, I definitely think the T would fill that "more sporty" oriented gap you are looking for... and someone else eats the depreciation!
It won't be mine, though. I'm hanging onto this one! My Spec...
S
Needsdecaf - great write up and you hit the nail on the head for me with a couple of personal issues I have with the T. I really think that if one orders a T, one should get all the T stuff, like LWB, RWS and off course the MT with the slightly lower gearing and LSD. But I had a base 16 with MT and I absolutely HATED that transmission. Oh it shifted buttery smooth but as you mentioned the gearing is way too tall to really have fun unless you are on a track. And with the 7 speeds, the gates are too close together to just slam it into gear and go without paying extra special attention before you release the clutch. So no problem right? Just order a T with a PDK. But in my mind that T should have a MT.
Also, if one gets a T, one NEEDS the T interior. But the T interior is not avail with the LWBs. If one gets those (and I think they are almost required) one has to accept alcantera - no Sportec for you. LOL
I realize these are all first world conflicts I have created in my own head but they are just enough to keep me from ordering one and having me back looking at another Base with PDK and Sportec etc....
Anyway, thank you for your write-up.
Also, if one gets a T, one NEEDS the T interior. But the T interior is not avail with the LWBs. If one gets those (and I think they are almost required) one has to accept alcantera - no Sportec for you. LOL
I realize these are all first world conflicts I have created in my own head but they are just enough to keep me from ordering one and having me back looking at another Base with PDK and Sportec etc....
Anyway, thank you for your write-up.
10-01-2018, 08:19 PM
#9
Yeah, I second the recommendation on the MT - In my opinion, unless your going to track it, the MT and RAS are WAAAAAY more important than the LWB seats to see what the T is all about. Besides, if you going to daily drive it, or at least more than just on the weekends, the LWB's are just a major PIA getting out of. I'd be concerned with how long the side bolsters will hold up to the wear and tear.
Anyway, I've just got over 1600 on my T now and it is by far the best "road car" of the lot that I have ever had as far as pure driving engagement and enjoyment. Especially once you get it run-in. The gear-box and the suspension with RAS are perfectly matched to daily driving, giving you the feeling of the smaller more responsive car that the 911 once was with the ability of using the entire range of of the gear box without always putting yourself into "lose your license" range.
Throughout my experience of owning Porsche 911's - I started out with an 84 911 Carrera 5 speed manual, later got a 2007 with that trip-tonic whatever they called it god awful automatic transmission, and later a 2017 Carrera S with PDK. The T is the first in that line-up that brings me full circle back to the pure driving enjoyment of what the 84 5 speed first gave me all those years ago!
Good luck in your future decisions!
Anyway, I've just got over 1600 on my T now and it is by far the best "road car" of the lot that I have ever had as far as pure driving engagement and enjoyment. Especially once you get it run-in. The gear-box and the suspension with RAS are perfectly matched to daily driving, giving you the feeling of the smaller more responsive car that the 911 once was with the ability of using the entire range of of the gear box without always putting yourself into "lose your license" range.
Throughout my experience of owning Porsche 911's - I started out with an 84 911 Carrera 5 speed manual, later got a 2007 with that trip-tonic whatever they called it god awful automatic transmission, and later a 2017 Carrera S with PDK. The T is the first in that line-up that brings me full circle back to the pure driving enjoyment of what the 84 5 speed first gave me all those years ago!
Good luck in your future decisions!
10-01-2018, 10:47 PM
#11
RL Community Team
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Originally Posted by Papa Fittig
Great review and write up. Thx. Still love NA 
10-02-2018, 12:17 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Great comparison and I agreed with your assessment. First time I drove my base 991.2 the most noticeable attribute was how agile and lithe it felt compared to my 997.2 C4S. I felt the car was very 'chuckable' and easy to place on the road. Next was the tractability of the motor. No need to break a sweat to get going in a taller gear. I had a mk7 GTI too, so I also see many of the attributes I loved about the GTI I found in the 991.2. They are both 7 generations of German product development and refinement.
It took me a while to get used to the 991.2, and initially I was regretting having sold the 997.2 for it. After I got to know the car a bit better, and took it on a hillclimb, I've now bonded with the car and wouldn't swap it back for a 997 (as much as I still miss my old car). I think on first try the 991.2's can leave you a bit lacking in the soul department, but once you spend more time with them, you discover the depths to the chassis and the nuances to it's balance/power application. I'm completely hooked now and I love it.
I have the PSE, and recently I've been doing drives with it off.....and I actually prefer all the mechanical sounds the PSE makes in conjunction with the air intake, with the PSE in the 'off' setting.
It took me a while to get used to the 991.2, and initially I was regretting having sold the 997.2 for it. After I got to know the car a bit better, and took it on a hillclimb, I've now bonded with the car and wouldn't swap it back for a 997 (as much as I still miss my old car). I think on first try the 991.2's can leave you a bit lacking in the soul department, but once you spend more time with them, you discover the depths to the chassis and the nuances to it's balance/power application. I'm completely hooked now and I love it.
I have the PSE, and recently I've been doing drives with it off.....and I actually prefer all the mechanical sounds the PSE makes in conjunction with the air intake, with the PSE in the 'off' setting.
10-02-2018, 03:10 PM
#15
Drifting
Needsdecaf, thank you very much for taking the time & effort to write and share your review! 
I got the manual transmission for my T. And I have the leather interior with Carrera T package (Racing Yellow). For me, it makes the cabin a great place to be.
I love my T and have already covered 7,420 miles in the first 6 months.
Given my time again, I think I’d order RAS and retain the lightweight rear glass. And maybe order PCCBs.
Great to hear a Porsche enthusiast give an unbiased review of the Carrera T. I enjoyed your write up.
I got the manual transmission for my T. And I have the leather interior with Carrera T package (Racing Yellow). For me, it makes the cabin a great place to be.
I love my T and have already covered 7,420 miles in the first 6 months.
Given my time again, I think I’d order RAS and retain the lightweight rear glass. And maybe order PCCBs.
Great to hear a Porsche enthusiast give an unbiased review of the Carrera T. I enjoyed your write up.