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^^^ Well, sure. Your opinion on NA vs Turbo. "It is known, Khaleesi..."
Would I love an NA lump in my car that can do the same things my little engine that could does? Sure, but would I want to pay twice the price? Nope. And given what those that can have turned the NA Porsche market into, given their ability to benefit at the cost, literally, to the rest of us, I'm actually glad not to be taking part in that game. I've played other games in my life, that matter much, much more. I want no part of it in a hobby.
In my, and many others, opinion, widely reported (here, which I guess counts), there are a lot of T's that DESERVE to sit on lots, based on the way the owners of those lots decided to spec them. Tweaking your argument slightly, I'll go out on a limb and say, had those same cars been spec'd differently (some would say, correctly), they'd have flown out of dealers. All the more so, once some folks actually opened themselves up to the goodness and accepted the car for what it is, adding it to their stable or trading in much more expensive variants for it, also widely reported here in RL...
I know my own car would have, under my very own butt, flown out of a dealer had I walked in and saw it and I wouldn't have had to wait the months I did for it to be created and shipped. I know I'm not alone in that. These opinions are valid too, right? Just like yours...
What I can't get behind are all the folks that want the car to fail, or continually point out it will tank, or that it's not this or that, or 2,000 WW isn't that big a deal or the "R" word doesn't really apply in this case because, after all, it's just marketing hype. But that's competition, the internet, and schadenfreude all wrapped up in a nice, little bow, isn't it.
Ultimately, this thread started and should end with "We'll see..." And I will, through the steadily chipping windscreen and light weight glass out back. As it should be...
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But the whole point of a 4.0 GT4 motor in a 992 T is so that it wouldn’t cost double the price. It would be the same price as a 992 T with the prevalent 3.0. And Porsche could actually get more of their investment back in that motor if they actually applied it to more cars.
I think it’s idiotic and passionless for them to not give us that masterpiece of a motor in a 911. We have plenty of 3.0’s, no shortage. Why not give us ONE with the detuned 4.0? People would fall over themselves to get that in a Carrera. Very frustrating.
What a f’ing travesty. Porsche works super annoyingly these days when it comes to engines outside of the GT cars, imo.
A 4.0 N/A Carrera would be sold out instantly. No cars sitting on lots like the current T had been so widely reported. Markups would be considerable, etc. People would fall over themselves to get one for the emotive connection alone, rest assured. Doesn’t matter how it stacks up in performance times. But bean counter homogenization rules above all. These companies certainly used to have a lot more fun, and experiment more.
Widely reported he says! lol
Your facts and reality are skewed due to your strong bias. Every 991.1 sat on lots. Every 991.2 sat/sits on lots, and every 992 will sit on lots... It's normal and typical, all of it. You also claimed in another thread that some 991.1 Carreras are holding value stronger and past 991.2's. That is purely false and wrong. They all have seen the same percentage of depreciation. Since 997 I can remember. They all depreciate in order, and their values fall in order. Nothing else. Someone just sold a 991.2 Carrera S for over $200k because it had stickers on it. Who on earth would ever pay that much for an "oh so terrible 991.2"? We get it, NA sounds nice but it's not the engine to end all engines. There are hundreds of 991 GT3's for sale and they're declining nicely in value. What does that say? Actually it doesn't matter.
Your facts and reality are skewed due to your strong bias. Every 991.1 sat on lots. Every 991.2 sat/sits on lots, and every 992 will sit on lots... It's normal and typical, all of it. You also claimed in another thread that some 991.1 Carreras are holding value stronger and past 991.2's. That is purely false and wrong. They all have seen the same percentage of depreciation. Since 997 I can remember. They all depreciate in order, and their values fall in order. Nothing else. Someone just sold a 991.2 Carrera S for over $200k because it had stickers on it. Who on earth would ever pay that much for an "oh so terrible 991.2"? We get it, NA sounds nice but it's not the engine to end all engines. There are hundreds of 991 GT3's for sale and they're declining nicely in value. What does that say? Actually it doesn't matter.
All this mumbo jumbo is upstairs in your head.
Mr. Bias strikes again.
991.1 prices are barely down from their 2017 prices, which were actually slightly up from 2016 prices. Currently 991.2 prices are nearing older 991.1 prices. We can bet pink slips that in 5+ years, we'll see 991.1 prices of equal mileage and spec surpass 991.2 prices. Market trends often don't lie. When 991.1 prices inched up in 2017 as soon as 991.2's launched, it was likely the first time a car so new produced at such volume ever did so. Good luck waiting on .2 prices to do the same, as they won't hold a "last of" card for some time. Next, find one car produced in as much quantity or more than a 911, as new as the 991.1 models were in 2017, that cost the same MSRP as 911's, that outperformed 2+ year old used 991.1 resale prices since 2016. Read and comprehend that criteria carefully. Then I'll wait. Though not too long, because you won't find any. Same can't and won't be said of .2's.
And yes, many threads on this forum stated Carrera T's were sitting on lots at launch. Oh, and dealers I went to had brand new Carrera T's ready to buy on the floor right at launch. Something that would never happen with a 4.0 Carrera T. In a million years. You new?
Further; remember that not only have 991.2's sold far less than 991.1's in the U.S, but in 2018 and 2019, the majority of 991 911's sold were N/A GT3's. GT3's surpassed Carrera's in sales for the first time ever, during the turbo Carrera generation. Now add up what I said above with what I said here, and culminate it into what I'm saying about the fervor an N/A 4.0 992 Carrera would product.
Theyre all going down. If you add miles and expect a small loss let me know how that goes. Its just a car btw. In fact, if you dont intentionally ruin its value it might as well go to someone else’s garage that will. Thats what its made for. Driving it like you stole it, rinse, repeat, get something faster for more money, repeat
ps the 991.2 gt3 is the best 911 ever made imo. Watch that go down too when the 992 one comes out. And those have an NA cup engine
I know..Its a bit speculative in some senses and rather obvious in others but I ask because I believe (keyword believe) that the Carrera T is a rather unique model. Sure its no 911 R or GT car. Just wondering how bad you think the Carrera T 991.2 value will get hammered when the 992 hits the streets.
Thanks
In 1997 I was looking to buy a used 911. A local dealer had several used 911’s. One of them was a 1987 911 Clubsport. I was comparing it to a 1985 911 that was sitting next to it. The Clubsport was $37,000. The standard 911 $33,000. There was really very little difference between the two cars. The Clubsport weighed 100 lb less, simple interior, no rear seats, same engine with 500rpm higher rev limit. I ended up purchasing a 993 for a lot more, but in hindsight should have bought the Clubsport. Today that Clubsport is worth a fortune. The point I am trying to make is that the Carrera T is basically the same idea as the Clubsport, and I believe down the road will appreciate nicely!
In 1997 I was looking to buy a used 911. A local dealer had several used 911’s. One of them was a 1987 911 Clubsport. I was comparing it to a 1985 911 that was sitting next to it. The Clubsport was $37,000. The standard 911 $33,000. There was really very little difference between the two cars. The Clubsport weighed 100 lb less, simple interior, no rear seats, same engine with 500rpm higher rev limit. I ended up purchasing a 993 for a lot more, but in hindsight should have bought the Clubsport. Today that Clubsport is worth a fortune. The point I am trying to make is that the Carrera T is basically the same idea as the Clubsport, and I believe down the road will appreciate nicely!
Probably more so with the most ‘T’ spec = no rear seats, manual transmission, PCCBs, lightweight glass, RAS, Carrera T Interior Package, no sunroof etc.
Just finished my 1st service today. 6,100 miles. All good, no dramas. Couple of the sales guys were talking the T up, saying how they can't get any on the used market, so few, etc. She loved the attention!
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Last edited by S S; 12-19-2019 at 02:37 PM.
Reason: Added a happy snap!
In 1997 I was looking to buy a used 911. A local dealer had several used 911’s. One of them was a 1987 911 Clubsport. I was comparing it to a 1985 911 that was sitting next to it. The Clubsport was $37,000. The standard 911 $33,000. There was really very little difference between the two cars. The Clubsport weighed 100 lb less, simple interior, no rear seats, same engine with 500rpm higher rev limit. I ended up purchasing a 993 for a lot more, but in hindsight should have bought the Clubsport. Today that Clubsport is worth a fortune. The point I am trying to make is that the Carrera T is basically the same idea as the Clubsport, and I believe down the road will appreciate nicely!
the way I look at it...that was 32 years ago and 32 years from now I’ll be dead or very close according to average life expectancy...so why fret over such things! Enjoy what you have and if you can’t enjoy it in a way meaningful to you, get rid of it and let someone else enjoy it. My last car was a 2014 CTS-V wagon with a 6 speed MT. It was incredible, valuable, and coveted. So much so I never drove it and then sold it for a $10k profit to a collector.
Guessing Residual values are similar to chasing the wind. It all depends on too many variables like:
1. how many original copies still exist
2. what is the financial market like
3. who/why a car is coveted (your guess is as good as mine 30 years from now)
4. spec of the car
09-19-2019, 06:22 PM
