Full PPF On Jet Black Paint Worth It?
07-24-2018, 10:03 PM
#16
07-24-2018, 10:05 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Where you are located will have a large impact on pricing. That being said, OP where do you live? Maybe some members could point you in the direction of a more reasonably priced job..
07-24-2018, 11:01 PM
#18
07-24-2018, 11:05 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
http://www.atlantaprotectivefilms.com
http://www.apogeedetail.com
http://motorcarsofatlanta.com
https://www.clearfilm.com
https://www.allprowindowtinting.com/...otection-film/
I have no idea about ANY of these guys, but at least call them up and ask for a quote as they are all local to you
http://www.apogeedetail.com
http://motorcarsofatlanta.com
https://www.clearfilm.com
https://www.allprowindowtinting.com/...otection-film/
I have no idea about ANY of these guys, but at least call them up and ask for a quote as they are all local to you
07-24-2018, 11:57 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
$10K to avoid swirls is a bit absurd IMHO... You could have a mobile detailer come by your house, hand wash the car, wax and maintain the paint as needed every couple of weeks for YEARS and spend less than that...
Last edited by pfbz; 07-25-2018 at 12:32 AM.
07-25-2018, 02:13 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
I live in a suburb of Philly. There is no reason to pay that price whether in a metro area or the sticks.
Get more estimates even if you have to drive a bit. They gave you a price with Porsche tax included.
Get more estimates even if you have to drive a bit. They gave you a price with Porsche tax included.
07-25-2018, 07:58 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Of all of the colors you can have, black is by far the worst and most difficult to maintain. I would 100% do the PPF, but the price you are being offered in about double of what it should be.
Shop around and read reviews. They all use the same film, it comes down the the prep and installation. Once you can verify you have a couple of qualified installers, then you can figure out a fair price and shop based on money. Where you are now is not a reasonable price. I sometimes feel when they see a Porsche or Ferrari guy walk in they just ask double thinking we are all rich A-holes.
Shop around and read reviews. They all use the same film, it comes down the the prep and installation. Once you can verify you have a couple of qualified installers, then you can figure out a fair price and shop based on money. Where you are now is not a reasonable price. I sometimes feel when they see a Porsche or Ferrari guy walk in they just ask double thinking we are all rich A-holes.
07-25-2018, 05:03 PM
#26
keep shopping
$2500 max. This shop is charging the Porsche tax. Also be sure to replace the tiny pieces the factory includes behind the doors as stuff flies up there all the time. I also did the rock guard, roof and doors.
Got a quote on a full PPF for my jet black 991.2 . I was expecting to pay around 5k and turns out to be almost twice that. Ive never owned a black car and my main concern is swirl marks, especially since this is a black car and I will be cleaning it often.
Would love to hear from anyone that has had full ppf on a black car. How much time/ grief did a full PPF it save you when it came to swirl marks? Tks
Would love to hear from anyone that has had full ppf on a black car. How much time/ grief did a full PPF it save you when it came to swirl marks? Tks
07-25-2018, 05:15 PM
#27
Not many places you'll find a quality full wrap for $2500. If you did, you found a gem. But 10k is absurd.
07-25-2018, 07:07 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
This quote may very well be from me. 
(we quote a fair amount of Porsche owners so it's hard to say) But I would like to take a moment to explain my own approach and why I, and some others around the country, may charge a premium. It has nothing to do with a Porsche tax. The price I offer on a new 911 is the same price I give Honda Civic Type-S'. The only caveat is a truly smaller and significantly simpler car like a 911 cabriolet which simplifies one of the most complex panels to wrap on modern cars; the 911 rear quarter/a-pillar/rocker panel mutant.
I would say the devil's in the details and the value highly depends on the owner. But if a private owner reflects on any service industry I think they'll observe that a service is as far from a commodity as something can get. So it's not fair to say one price is absolutely the right or wrong price. The nuances greatly vary and likely dictate the price.
Even as someone who is historically more expensive than other installers in my town I am honest with myself that not everyone is seeking what we charge a premium for. So it's not a matter of everyone should want this or want that. It's that it's there for folks who are seeking it. Most of our clients opt for an advanced style of PPF wrap which is incredibly time consuming and labor intensive. The safe disassembly and reassembly we charge is still far less than what a dealer would charge for the same service and even most dealerships charge more than we do for PPF and typically looks terrible. We guarantee that the fit and finish will be like-new, without damage and at factory spec. We have a track record of not having problems and our client's cars not having problems. But if there is a problem, we will ensure our client is well cared for and still completely satisfied. And going back to the service industry aspect, it's crazy how common it is for someone to be done wrong and the shop refuses to stand behind their work. We eliminate that concern for our clients.
To be completely candid, just the way we prep for a full-body wrap is no brief process and is done with the long term integrity of the paint in mind. Some may not know this but PPF can mask swirl marks and marring in paint. When someone intends to hurry through a full-wrap it is possible, and not uncommon, that they forego safe decontamination processes that add significant time to a project because they're simply not charging enough to do so (for some, they actually have no idea how to properly care for paint anyways) and they know the owner can't see the defects when it leaves their shop all the same. But come the day that film is removed to either be replaced or inspected by a buyer, the hot mess lying under the PPF will be revealed and the savings can be shot or worse. I have had clients tell me that they decided to use us instead of what they saw as the only other option they would consider because they saw how the other shop prepped cars....1 dirty bucket, 1 dirty wash mitt, the same dirty water all for the cars being prepped in a day and all of it being done outside in direct summer sunlight. They knew the savings were coming at a cost that they weren't okay with. We charge a separate prep service charge because a full-body prep can take more than a full day alone and instead of clients get "upsell" calls, we lay it all out and charge for what we know to expect: doing it right is not a fast process.
But with even our "basic" full-body wraps being what they are, my shop and others like me around the globe charge more than most shops I am aware of. A big part of that is our prep, OCD nature/follow through, in-house transport service, and, a complete experience with ongoing support. Anyone that has ever spoken with me over a phone call can attest to my desire to find the right fit for a client without ever pressuring them into spending more. We seek a 100% success rate with our clients and cater to the more particular kind of owner. It's really no different than why a car enthusiast may be drawn more to a Porsche 911 than a Corvette. On Rennlist there is no need for me to articulate the differences....folks already get it. But when an outsider looks at a horsepower to horsepower or track time difference, they may call a 911 buyer nuts when looking at the price. The devil's in the details and Porsche knows exactly what they do, how they do it, who they to do it for and the experience they intend to provide their clients with. Those tangibles as well as intangibles are a huge part of the cost for a new 911. And yet, Porsche is killing it and can pretty much do no wrong. They cater to their people, do their thing very well and charge accordingly.
The PPF industry can leave someone loving PPF, feeling like it's practically impossible to see and enjoying a great peace of mind while driving their car. Or, it can leave someone falling out of love with their car because someone cut up/scratched up the paint or despising PPF because they got a terrible job that looks ugly and it still wasn't cheap. Consider: how many accidents by a facility does it require for a Porsche owner to realize a $2,000-$5,000+ loss, incredible headache/anxiety or frustration when it comes to support after the check is cut?
One of the things I also do very well is itemize exactly what someone is paying for with all options and paths outlined. For instance, I itemize the cost for the disassembly and reassembly. That is an option and if someone decides that is not for them, they can keep the PPF wrap itself down to $6495 which is not even close to the most expensive full-wrap services available.
With all of this said I do want to say that it's possible for one to spend less and still be completely, 100% satisfied with someone else that is less expensive. But for those that are .... particular (
we know who we are)...I can guarantee satisfaction, support, ethical treatment for a private owner as well as the long term integrity of their car and incredible results. But we(and others like my shop) do charge a reasonable price for our expertise, results and willingness to do things a very certain way. We are more expensive, but we also do much more for it. Likely, many reading this would make a similar argument for why they are not the cheapest at what they do in their own industry but rather, have clients seek them out for what is seen as a premium. It's no different for detailing, paint correction, coatings, PPF, tint and even mechanical work/diagnosing.
Kind regards,
Jean-Claude
(we quote a fair amount of Porsche owners so it's hard to say) But I would like to take a moment to explain my own approach and why I, and some others around the country, may charge a premium. It has nothing to do with a Porsche tax. The price I offer on a new 911 is the same price I give Honda Civic Type-S'. The only caveat is a truly smaller and significantly simpler car like a 911 cabriolet which simplifies one of the most complex panels to wrap on modern cars; the 911 rear quarter/a-pillar/rocker panel mutant. I would say the devil's in the details and the value highly depends on the owner. But if a private owner reflects on any service industry I think they'll observe that a service is as far from a commodity as something can get. So it's not fair to say one price is absolutely the right or wrong price. The nuances greatly vary and likely dictate the price.
Even as someone who is historically more expensive than other installers in my town I am honest with myself that not everyone is seeking what we charge a premium for. So it's not a matter of everyone should want this or want that. It's that it's there for folks who are seeking it. Most of our clients opt for an advanced style of PPF wrap which is incredibly time consuming and labor intensive. The safe disassembly and reassembly we charge is still far less than what a dealer would charge for the same service and even most dealerships charge more than we do for PPF and typically looks terrible. We guarantee that the fit and finish will be like-new, without damage and at factory spec. We have a track record of not having problems and our client's cars not having problems. But if there is a problem, we will ensure our client is well cared for and still completely satisfied. And going back to the service industry aspect, it's crazy how common it is for someone to be done wrong and the shop refuses to stand behind their work. We eliminate that concern for our clients.
To be completely candid, just the way we prep for a full-body wrap is no brief process and is done with the long term integrity of the paint in mind. Some may not know this but PPF can mask swirl marks and marring in paint. When someone intends to hurry through a full-wrap it is possible, and not uncommon, that they forego safe decontamination processes that add significant time to a project because they're simply not charging enough to do so (for some, they actually have no idea how to properly care for paint anyways) and they know the owner can't see the defects when it leaves their shop all the same. But come the day that film is removed to either be replaced or inspected by a buyer, the hot mess lying under the PPF will be revealed and the savings can be shot or worse. I have had clients tell me that they decided to use us instead of what they saw as the only other option they would consider because they saw how the other shop prepped cars....1 dirty bucket, 1 dirty wash mitt, the same dirty water all for the cars being prepped in a day and all of it being done outside in direct summer sunlight. They knew the savings were coming at a cost that they weren't okay with. We charge a separate prep service charge because a full-body prep can take more than a full day alone and instead of clients get "upsell" calls, we lay it all out and charge for what we know to expect: doing it right is not a fast process.
But with even our "basic" full-body wraps being what they are, my shop and others like me around the globe charge more than most shops I am aware of. A big part of that is our prep, OCD nature/follow through, in-house transport service, and, a complete experience with ongoing support. Anyone that has ever spoken with me over a phone call can attest to my desire to find the right fit for a client without ever pressuring them into spending more. We seek a 100% success rate with our clients and cater to the more particular kind of owner. It's really no different than why a car enthusiast may be drawn more to a Porsche 911 than a Corvette. On Rennlist there is no need for me to articulate the differences....folks already get it. But when an outsider looks at a horsepower to horsepower or track time difference, they may call a 911 buyer nuts when looking at the price. The devil's in the details and Porsche knows exactly what they do, how they do it, who they to do it for and the experience they intend to provide their clients with. Those tangibles as well as intangibles are a huge part of the cost for a new 911. And yet, Porsche is killing it and can pretty much do no wrong. They cater to their people, do their thing very well and charge accordingly.
The PPF industry can leave someone loving PPF, feeling like it's practically impossible to see and enjoying a great peace of mind while driving their car. Or, it can leave someone falling out of love with their car because someone cut up/scratched up the paint or despising PPF because they got a terrible job that looks ugly and it still wasn't cheap. Consider: how many accidents by a facility does it require for a Porsche owner to realize a $2,000-$5,000+ loss, incredible headache/anxiety or frustration when it comes to support after the check is cut?
One of the things I also do very well is itemize exactly what someone is paying for with all options and paths outlined. For instance, I itemize the cost for the disassembly and reassembly. That is an option and if someone decides that is not for them, they can keep the PPF wrap itself down to $6495 which is not even close to the most expensive full-wrap services available.
With all of this said I do want to say that it's possible for one to spend less and still be completely, 100% satisfied with someone else that is less expensive. But for those that are .... particular (
we know who we are)...I can guarantee satisfaction, support, ethical treatment for a private owner as well as the long term integrity of their car and incredible results. But we(and others like my shop) do charge a reasonable price for our expertise, results and willingness to do things a very certain way. We are more expensive, but we also do much more for it. Likely, many reading this would make a similar argument for why they are not the cheapest at what they do in their own industry but rather, have clients seek them out for what is seen as a premium. It's no different for detailing, paint correction, coatings, PPF, tint and even mechanical work/diagnosing.Kind regards,
Jean-Claude
07-25-2018, 07:23 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I have never met a PPF guy that uses dirty water, 1 bucket, etc. I have also never met a PPF installer who charges 10k who doesn't say that what they do differs from what everyone else does. There is nothing else that can be said. How else can one justify a 100% premium over another shop? Preparation, no templates, removal and reinstallation of exterior parts.. Standard.
But just for ***** and Giggles.. If a no badge, no mirror, no door handle job costs $6500 (also nuts) and a "complete one" costs $10,000 lets try and analyze how much one pays in labor for the $3500 difference.
How many hours do you suppose it takes to remove door panels, mirrors, badges, handles, and then put them back on? I saw my PPF guy take my door panel completely off yesterday in less than 7 minutes. From there you have access to the mirror and handles, etc. Lets call it 5 hours on and 5 hours off, just to be silly and over the top. 10 hours at $350 p/hour labor. Using 2 guys should cut the job time in half, but lets assume they are slow, maybe a little high and it still takes 10 hours for 2 guys.. Thats $175 per hour shop time. Absurd. No possible way to calculate what the difference is with any normal reasoning.
Let me also say that if and when the PPF comes off, it doesn't matter if the car had 100 hours of prep or ZERO hours of prep, its going to need to be buffed out and prepped again. WHY? Because the residual glue and crap that inevitably remains from certain areas needs to be addressed and removed, so its getting prepped again no matter what. Thats why 100% perfection isnt necessary but, decontamination is. As stated the PPF hides much of the imperfections so minimal color correction is needed..
My 2 cents
But just for ***** and Giggles.. If a no badge, no mirror, no door handle job costs $6500 (also nuts) and a "complete one" costs $10,000 lets try and analyze how much one pays in labor for the $3500 difference.
How many hours do you suppose it takes to remove door panels, mirrors, badges, handles, and then put them back on? I saw my PPF guy take my door panel completely off yesterday in less than 7 minutes. From there you have access to the mirror and handles, etc. Lets call it 5 hours on and 5 hours off, just to be silly and over the top. 10 hours at $350 p/hour labor. Using 2 guys should cut the job time in half, but lets assume they are slow, maybe a little high and it still takes 10 hours for 2 guys.. Thats $175 per hour shop time. Absurd. No possible way to calculate what the difference is with any normal reasoning.
Let me also say that if and when the PPF comes off, it doesn't matter if the car had 100 hours of prep or ZERO hours of prep, its going to need to be buffed out and prepped again. WHY? Because the residual glue and crap that inevitably remains from certain areas needs to be addressed and removed, so its getting prepped again no matter what. Thats why 100% perfection isnt necessary but, decontamination is. As stated the PPF hides much of the imperfections so minimal color correction is needed..
My 2 cents
07-25-2018, 09:26 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
I am unsure if this is directed my way but I am okay with professionally debating the topic with you as I believe you may not be aware of some things. Though, while I do not know of anyone in my area that charges $10,000 for a full ppf wrap on a 911, I guess it's possible my advanced wrap price that totaled $8,385(pre-tax), not $10,000, may be the center of attention.
I have never met a PPF guy that uses dirty water, 1 bucket, etc. I have also never met a PPF installer who charges 10k who doesn't say that what they do differs from what everyone else does. There is nothing else that can be said. How else can one justify a 100% premium over another shop? Preparation, no templates, removal and reinstallation of exterior parts.. Standard.
With all due respect, there are likely installers and detailers you've not seen work in person. It's not a stretch to say someone's not seen something, but it doesn't make their opinion any less anecdotal nor does it disprove the contrary.
I am going to guess you've never met anyone who charges a premium for any service who doesn't say that. I've also regularly heard how the cheapest service in town(for whatever), claims they do the exact same thing as the premium priced services. Discernment should be used in either case as neither are guaranteed. Consider the source and buyer beware.
Speaking of 50% "savings" or 100% "premiums", I have seen $3250 full-body wraps. N'ah, no thanks. We fix those and have folks at Caffeine and Exotics tell us how disappointed they are with the job done, "here let me show you how ugly it looks....my car is right over here...." On the other hand, I know not everyone has the same standard and as long as a customer is happy, I don't see a problem unless we get philosophical.
But just for ***** and Giggles.. If a no badge, no mirror, no door handle job costs $6500 (also nuts) and a "complete one" costs $10,000 lets try and analyze how much one pays in labor for the $3500 difference.
Let's. But let's also consider relevant items not being mentioned. Fair?
How many hours do you suppose it takes to remove door panels, mirrors, badges, handles, and then put them back on? I saw my PPF guy take my door panel completely off yesterday in less than 7 minutes.
The door panel is the single easiest thing to remove on a door. I've done it more times than I can recall and I yet would never storm my way through a door panel in 7 minutes. You see, just cataloging the parts and tagging all quick connects takes more than 7 minutes aside from the panel.
It may not be important to some or they may see it as wasteful, but some installers respect the leather or alcantara surrounding 2 of the panels that must be pried away from those sensitive surfaces. Some technicians may respect the satin metal handle which is easy to scratch when using a 6" extension bit with a torx head on it to remove the screw. Torx heads are pretty sharp and merely grazing any surface around it will cause damage. Every bolt that holds the doorcard in place is a large torx head. Why rush that to save a few minutes? To move with purpose and not behave as a bull in a china shop with hardware, connections and sensitive surfaces requires more time. Is it enough by itself to justify a premium? Sure. Not the full difference, but it's one more piece and each piece adds up. It's like death by a thousand cuts(time-wise) when a technician respects their client's car and doesn't blaze through it with carelessness for what they're handling. It all has a cost associated with it.
From there you have access to the mirror and handles, etc. Lets call it 5 hours on and 5 hours off, just to be silly and over the top. 10 hours at $350 p/hour labor. Using 2 guys should cut the job time in half, but lets assume they are slow, maybe a little high and it still takes 10 hours for 2 guys.. Thats $175 per hour shop time. Absurd. No possible way to calculate what the difference is with any normal reasoning.
It's fair for one to estimate the careful removal of just the door parts for an advanced wrap is about 5 hours off and 5 hours on. But your math states that 2 people make it take half as long. That does not cut the labor nor cost in half and has absolutely zero bearing on the overhead associated with the service. And when you have, say, those 2 qualified technicians who actually don't get high and are paid living wages as productive parts of a business, it just means only in a vacuum of labor being free (still haven't found that) it "took half as long" in context of cost associated with a service. None of my staff "gets maybe a little high"....or any kind of high. The shops that do not charge $3000 take pride in their work, their staff and the results. That questionable kind of staff/element doesn't work for us.
There are other sources of overhead being ignored in this math and maybe not understanding the topic well is a part of overlooking these as part of the normal reasoning:
·The labor to properly drop a 991.2 bumper, remove the headlights and then reinstall once the wrapping is installed, inspected 24 hours later(along with any necessary redo's which starts that inspection process over) and completed.
·The incredible time sink in the custom trimming to provide far superior tolerances than any pre-cut will offer. This easily makes a beautiful and well thought out custom installation can take 40+% longer, by itself, over a typical lick-n-stick precut.
·Have you looked at the emblems on the rear bumper of a 991 recently? A seamless wrap requires removal, replacement of tape and reinstallation to spec. It's not a 1 hour job dealing with it and there's outright additional cost for parts.
·The baby sitting of pieces before reassembling and the added time to address any advanced installation redo's as a part of QA.
·All the extra time to tuck areas that not removing parts will not allow for wrapping on.
·All the extra time to tuck areas that the lick-n-stick shop doesn't regardless of parts being removed or not.
·Transportation service is comped at a point but it is not free of overhead to a company. It is a value-added aspect for clients having a measure of services completed. Yet, the trailer was not free to the company. It's storage is not free. The maintenance is not free. The truck we didn't need before getting a trailer to safely pull it was not free. Having the owner of the business personally handle the loading, unloading and delivery of the cars has a value/cost.
·What about spending upwards of 3-5 hours with a new client ironing out all the nuances of their project before they felt good about what they exactly wanted? I am not talking about what most shops do: "Here's the list. What do you want?" or, "so what are you going with?" (in pursuit of hurrying up and closing a deal before a client even knows if they want anything). There is opportunity cost associated with that and it plays a role in the cost of a service. What about if there's a question/concern after the project is completed and it has nothing to do with the services we offered? Yep, folks get that and yet there is no bill for it. The after care, on-going resource calls, hand's on wash clinics and a policy of doing whatever it takes to make a client 100% satisfied all has an intrinsic cost to it.
·There are many other nuances that drive up the time consumption of these kinds of projects. But those listed above are not nuances...they are huge pieces of overhead that must be accounted for in the cost of a project and are being ignored in the math.
One does not need to see value in these aspects. We create solutions for particular owners of fine automobiles and not everyone cares for this stuff even then. But I am not the one attacking why companies that cause outright damage to expensive cars are truly the scourge to the modern fine automobile owner. I am presenting my counter argument against the idea that I, or others like me, are just applying a "Porsche tax" or ripping folks off.
Let me also say that if and when the PPF comes off, it doesn't matter if the car had 100 hours of prep or ZERO hours of prep, its going to need to be buffed out and prepped again. WHY? Because the residual glue and crap that inevitably remains from certain areas needs to be addressed and removed, so its getting prepped again no matter what.
Does a car that has had a full-wrap removed require "prep"? Absolutely. But "prep" can be a few hours or it can be 40+. Actually, many of the items I noted before play a role in keeping that same prep at a minimum. But it's inaccurate to say every one requires "buffing". If my client paid me for paint correction, that film will come off and it will look as the day I wrapped it. If there's adhesive, we will responsibly remove it without wrecking the clear coat. And when we remove it, we do it the fastidious way in which we don't leave adhesive all over (The caveat to that item is if it's ancient PPF that should have been removed 5 years ago already). If a client just wanted a PPF wrap, we will not further damage the paint because we happen to know the paint defects will be masked by the PPF. We will still be respectful and do it as if it were my own car.
Thats why 100% perfection isnt necessary but, decontamination is. As stated the PPF hides much of the imperfections so minimal color correction is needed..
Whatever measure a client wishes before we wrap is up to them. I educate them on what they can anticipate and then deliver once they make an informed decision.
With all due respect, there's a large gap in what you perceive and what can actually go into a PPF wrap. Removal and reinstallation of parts, yes it's time consuming but it's a part of the puzzle, not the whole picture.
If a potential client does not value such things there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I do not get catty with folks who call seeking something different than what we offer. I do not mock them even after the conversation. Different folks, different strokes. But I also am prepared to explain why myself, and some others like me, charge what we charge.
I have never met a PPF guy that uses dirty water, 1 bucket, etc. I have also never met a PPF installer who charges 10k who doesn't say that what they do differs from what everyone else does. There is nothing else that can be said. How else can one justify a 100% premium over another shop? Preparation, no templates, removal and reinstallation of exterior parts.. Standard.
With all due respect, there are likely installers and detailers you've not seen work in person. It's not a stretch to say someone's not seen something, but it doesn't make their opinion any less anecdotal nor does it disprove the contrary.
I am going to guess you've never met anyone who charges a premium for any service who doesn't say that. I've also regularly heard how the cheapest service in town(for whatever), claims they do the exact same thing as the premium priced services. Discernment should be used in either case as neither are guaranteed. Consider the source and buyer beware.
Speaking of 50% "savings" or 100% "premiums", I have seen $3250 full-body wraps. N'ah, no thanks. We fix those and have folks at Caffeine and Exotics tell us how disappointed they are with the job done, "here let me show you how ugly it looks....my car is right over here...." On the other hand, I know not everyone has the same standard and as long as a customer is happy, I don't see a problem unless we get philosophical.
But just for ***** and Giggles.. If a no badge, no mirror, no door handle job costs $6500 (also nuts) and a "complete one" costs $10,000 lets try and analyze how much one pays in labor for the $3500 difference.
Let's. But let's also consider relevant items not being mentioned. Fair?
How many hours do you suppose it takes to remove door panels, mirrors, badges, handles, and then put them back on? I saw my PPF guy take my door panel completely off yesterday in less than 7 minutes.
The door panel is the single easiest thing to remove on a door. I've done it more times than I can recall and I yet would never storm my way through a door panel in 7 minutes. You see, just cataloging the parts and tagging all quick connects takes more than 7 minutes aside from the panel.
It may not be important to some or they may see it as wasteful, but some installers respect the leather or alcantara surrounding 2 of the panels that must be pried away from those sensitive surfaces. Some technicians may respect the satin metal handle which is easy to scratch when using a 6" extension bit with a torx head on it to remove the screw. Torx heads are pretty sharp and merely grazing any surface around it will cause damage. Every bolt that holds the doorcard in place is a large torx head. Why rush that to save a few minutes? To move with purpose and not behave as a bull in a china shop with hardware, connections and sensitive surfaces requires more time. Is it enough by itself to justify a premium? Sure. Not the full difference, but it's one more piece and each piece adds up. It's like death by a thousand cuts(time-wise) when a technician respects their client's car and doesn't blaze through it with carelessness for what they're handling. It all has a cost associated with it.
From there you have access to the mirror and handles, etc. Lets call it 5 hours on and 5 hours off, just to be silly and over the top. 10 hours at $350 p/hour labor. Using 2 guys should cut the job time in half, but lets assume they are slow, maybe a little high and it still takes 10 hours for 2 guys.. Thats $175 per hour shop time. Absurd. No possible way to calculate what the difference is with any normal reasoning.
It's fair for one to estimate the careful removal of just the door parts for an advanced wrap is about 5 hours off and 5 hours on. But your math states that 2 people make it take half as long. That does not cut the labor nor cost in half and has absolutely zero bearing on the overhead associated with the service. And when you have, say, those 2 qualified technicians who actually don't get high and are paid living wages as productive parts of a business, it just means only in a vacuum of labor being free (still haven't found that) it "took half as long" in context of cost associated with a service. None of my staff "gets maybe a little high"....or any kind of high. The shops that do not charge $3000 take pride in their work, their staff and the results. That questionable kind of staff/element doesn't work for us.
There are other sources of overhead being ignored in this math and maybe not understanding the topic well is a part of overlooking these as part of the normal reasoning:
·The labor to properly drop a 991.2 bumper, remove the headlights and then reinstall once the wrapping is installed, inspected 24 hours later(along with any necessary redo's which starts that inspection process over) and completed.
·The incredible time sink in the custom trimming to provide far superior tolerances than any pre-cut will offer. This easily makes a beautiful and well thought out custom installation can take 40+% longer, by itself, over a typical lick-n-stick precut.
·Have you looked at the emblems on the rear bumper of a 991 recently? A seamless wrap requires removal, replacement of tape and reinstallation to spec. It's not a 1 hour job dealing with it and there's outright additional cost for parts.
·The baby sitting of pieces before reassembling and the added time to address any advanced installation redo's as a part of QA.
·All the extra time to tuck areas that not removing parts will not allow for wrapping on.
·All the extra time to tuck areas that the lick-n-stick shop doesn't regardless of parts being removed or not.
·Transportation service is comped at a point but it is not free of overhead to a company. It is a value-added aspect for clients having a measure of services completed. Yet, the trailer was not free to the company. It's storage is not free. The maintenance is not free. The truck we didn't need before getting a trailer to safely pull it was not free. Having the owner of the business personally handle the loading, unloading and delivery of the cars has a value/cost.
·What about spending upwards of 3-5 hours with a new client ironing out all the nuances of their project before they felt good about what they exactly wanted? I am not talking about what most shops do: "Here's the list. What do you want?" or, "so what are you going with?" (in pursuit of hurrying up and closing a deal before a client even knows if they want anything). There is opportunity cost associated with that and it plays a role in the cost of a service. What about if there's a question/concern after the project is completed and it has nothing to do with the services we offered? Yep, folks get that and yet there is no bill for it. The after care, on-going resource calls, hand's on wash clinics and a policy of doing whatever it takes to make a client 100% satisfied all has an intrinsic cost to it.
·There are many other nuances that drive up the time consumption of these kinds of projects. But those listed above are not nuances...they are huge pieces of overhead that must be accounted for in the cost of a project and are being ignored in the math.
One does not need to see value in these aspects. We create solutions for particular owners of fine automobiles and not everyone cares for this stuff even then. But I am not the one attacking why companies that cause outright damage to expensive cars are truly the scourge to the modern fine automobile owner. I am presenting my counter argument against the idea that I, or others like me, are just applying a "Porsche tax" or ripping folks off.
Let me also say that if and when the PPF comes off, it doesn't matter if the car had 100 hours of prep or ZERO hours of prep, its going to need to be buffed out and prepped again. WHY? Because the residual glue and crap that inevitably remains from certain areas needs to be addressed and removed, so its getting prepped again no matter what.
Does a car that has had a full-wrap removed require "prep"? Absolutely. But "prep" can be a few hours or it can be 40+. Actually, many of the items I noted before play a role in keeping that same prep at a minimum. But it's inaccurate to say every one requires "buffing". If my client paid me for paint correction, that film will come off and it will look as the day I wrapped it. If there's adhesive, we will responsibly remove it without wrecking the clear coat. And when we remove it, we do it the fastidious way in which we don't leave adhesive all over (The caveat to that item is if it's ancient PPF that should have been removed 5 years ago already). If a client just wanted a PPF wrap, we will not further damage the paint because we happen to know the paint defects will be masked by the PPF. We will still be respectful and do it as if it were my own car.
Thats why 100% perfection isnt necessary but, decontamination is. As stated the PPF hides much of the imperfections so minimal color correction is needed..
Whatever measure a client wishes before we wrap is up to them. I educate them on what they can anticipate and then deliver once they make an informed decision.
With all due respect, there's a large gap in what you perceive and what can actually go into a PPF wrap. Removal and reinstallation of parts, yes it's time consuming but it's a part of the puzzle, not the whole picture.
If a potential client does not value such things there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I do not get catty with folks who call seeking something different than what we offer. I do not mock them even after the conversation. Different folks, different strokes. But I also am prepared to explain why myself, and some others like me, charge what we charge.