Another one of these NA vs turbo threads
06-23-2018, 01:01 PM
#1
Another one of these NA vs turbo threads
Full disclosure: I have a 2017 C4S.
After daily driving a loud 981 boxster for nearly 70k miles, I consider myself someone who is the NA engine camp. I've praised the car for 'how good it sounds' and 'linear power delivery/response.' I've had plenty of fun with the top down, a low gear, and mountain road. As the saying goes, 'you don't know what you're missing till its gone.' This goes for both the good and the bad.
Some days I wasn't in the best mood and needed to drive to work or another reason. A normal person would leave the Porsche in the garage and take the SUV instead. I didn't. I was hooked on driving the Porsche and would take it without question; in fact, I would normally look for reasons to go drive it. Mainly, I liked the driving position/ ergonomics and the way the car handled stable and straight down the highway. Everything else just feels sloppy after driving a Porsche. Some days I didn't want to hear the engine or exhaust system - I just wanted to get to my destination without a headache. In traffic, BMWs were jumping from a stoplight effortlessly, but I had to rev it up, make lots of noise (feeling a bit silly sometimes), yet never really getting much of a power kick. That was okay, because the power was all usable and I mostly drove on highways anyway. Doing this over and over again got old...it was hard to explain this concept to others rarely in the car and I would have never thought I'd be in such a situation because sound was one my buying points for the boxster.
I sold the boxster for various reasons, but less than a year later I found myself missing the 'Porsche experience.' This time I wanted to buy a 911 because it had rear seats (requirement per wife for rare kid hauling) and was more of a GT car that suited my driving style better. Comparing the 991.1 and 991.2 cars back to back, I immediately noted that the .1 car sounds 'better' and familiar, yet still quieter than my last boxster. Emotion took over saying I should buy this low miles 2015 GTS no question. I drove around a bit and while the GTS was no slouch, the new turbo engine in a base model felt obviously more responsive and faster. It didn't really behave like the turbo I was expecting...more like an NA engine with a shot of adrenaline rather than the traditional on/off turbo kick. I was in a bit of bind with no clear direction...do I want the faster newer car or the older 'better sounding' one.
I slept on it and let a few weeks pass then looked into it again. This time the emotion of 'engine sound' had waded and I realized that the turbo car sounds 'different' rather than worse. It is less droning while cruising (something I hated on my boxster) and is quieter in lower RPMs (great because sometimes I'm not in the mood to listen a subwoofer all the time), yet you revving it out, you still get the 'howling flat 6' experience inside the cabin. The NA engine sounds raspier/bassier down low and mid, which some might perceive this as 'better.' The turbo has whistles and louder PSE backfires (AKA 'character sounds'), but it doesn't have the same building raspy growl. Neither sounds like a Ferrari and I'm sure guys in corvette forums will claim their V8 sounds better. I know my boxster with the top down and the right road sounded better than the 991.1 GTS. The new turbo McLaren 570s is no better or worse than a 991.2. Why was I even so focused on the sound where I vividly remember driving home with a headache and keeping the NA rev'd 3K+ to avoid drone? I looked at how the power train actually did it's job (you know move the car?) and the newer generation was clearly more responsive, faster, and just better. The mid and low end torque is quickly accessible for normal driving and higher RPMs are there to pass with ease at excessive speeds. Driving the older car felt clearly a step back in time (both the good and the bad).
This experience had me realize that buying a car based on sound alone is just plain stupid. Its what you do based on emotion before logic sets in. Might be a fun thing short term, but is it going to be long term? Also, who's to say what sounds better? Its preference...some people might not even want a loud car and would prefer Porsche to hurry up and release a quiet electric 911 that handles like a 911. I didn't buy mine to (primarily) listen to engine rev out...I bought it because of the way I fit in it and the way it handles. I could have bought a Tesla, but didn't...fact that it is fast and efficient didn't matter...I just didn't like how the car handled or felt going down a road. The 'Porsche handling' is what I'm after and if they put a silent electric engine into a future generation that still has this, I'll probably buy it.
The newer generation is just a better car. Its faster, has better power response (unless revved it out, the old NA has dead spots and hesitation from a deadstop with PDK), is more efficient MPG cruising, better tech, handling is tighter (a fact that keeps getting overlooked), rear axle steering makes the car more agile, wider tires, nicer steering wheel, and new PCM is a generation ahead. There are subtle improvements in the facelift like door handles are no longer a separate piece and slicker front bumper/ rear end. Aside from the engine, there are many technical internal improvements including the AWD system, PDK, and even things like exhaust. All these little things matter and stack up. The new car feels more precise compared to the old, yet some people don't care and get cause up in the sounds the car makes.
Forced induction makes cars faster <period>. Many prefer a car with a turbo on it and this is normally a sign of 'higher performance car.' Unless its a V8 with 13 MPG, an NA engine feels slow to some. Nearly all performance cars have turbos or are supercharged now-a-days. The technology works and a better question is why did Porsche take so long to putting turbos in the 911. They had it available as the highest end model out of reach for many. They're forced to add turbos to all their cars to stay competitive and relevant. So they did a good thing by creating a great engine that more of less acts like an NA, yet is amazingly quick, and still sounds like a flat 6. Isn't fast acceleration a hallmark of a good sports car and not the sound produced by gas coming out of tailpipes? People should celebrate the new engines instead of whine about 'how they like their NA engine sound.' Sounds get old after a while, but performance doesn't.
I think car people should move on and stop kicking the dead horse of 'my NA engine sounds better.' How are you guys going to accept that perhaps future cars will all be electric?
After daily driving a loud 981 boxster for nearly 70k miles, I consider myself someone who is the NA engine camp. I've praised the car for 'how good it sounds' and 'linear power delivery/response.' I've had plenty of fun with the top down, a low gear, and mountain road. As the saying goes, 'you don't know what you're missing till its gone.' This goes for both the good and the bad.
Some days I wasn't in the best mood and needed to drive to work or another reason. A normal person would leave the Porsche in the garage and take the SUV instead. I didn't. I was hooked on driving the Porsche and would take it without question; in fact, I would normally look for reasons to go drive it. Mainly, I liked the driving position/ ergonomics and the way the car handled stable and straight down the highway. Everything else just feels sloppy after driving a Porsche. Some days I didn't want to hear the engine or exhaust system - I just wanted to get to my destination without a headache. In traffic, BMWs were jumping from a stoplight effortlessly, but I had to rev it up, make lots of noise (feeling a bit silly sometimes), yet never really getting much of a power kick. That was okay, because the power was all usable and I mostly drove on highways anyway. Doing this over and over again got old...it was hard to explain this concept to others rarely in the car and I would have never thought I'd be in such a situation because sound was one my buying points for the boxster.
I sold the boxster for various reasons, but less than a year later I found myself missing the 'Porsche experience.' This time I wanted to buy a 911 because it had rear seats (requirement per wife for rare kid hauling) and was more of a GT car that suited my driving style better. Comparing the 991.1 and 991.2 cars back to back, I immediately noted that the .1 car sounds 'better' and familiar, yet still quieter than my last boxster. Emotion took over saying I should buy this low miles 2015 GTS no question. I drove around a bit and while the GTS was no slouch, the new turbo engine in a base model felt obviously more responsive and faster. It didn't really behave like the turbo I was expecting...more like an NA engine with a shot of adrenaline rather than the traditional on/off turbo kick. I was in a bit of bind with no clear direction...do I want the faster newer car or the older 'better sounding' one.
I slept on it and let a few weeks pass then looked into it again. This time the emotion of 'engine sound' had waded and I realized that the turbo car sounds 'different' rather than worse. It is less droning while cruising (something I hated on my boxster) and is quieter in lower RPMs (great because sometimes I'm not in the mood to listen a subwoofer all the time), yet you revving it out, you still get the 'howling flat 6' experience inside the cabin. The NA engine sounds raspier/bassier down low and mid, which some might perceive this as 'better.' The turbo has whistles and louder PSE backfires (AKA 'character sounds'), but it doesn't have the same building raspy growl. Neither sounds like a Ferrari and I'm sure guys in corvette forums will claim their V8 sounds better. I know my boxster with the top down and the right road sounded better than the 991.1 GTS. The new turbo McLaren 570s is no better or worse than a 991.2. Why was I even so focused on the sound where I vividly remember driving home with a headache and keeping the NA rev'd 3K+ to avoid drone? I looked at how the power train actually did it's job (you know move the car?) and the newer generation was clearly more responsive, faster, and just better. The mid and low end torque is quickly accessible for normal driving and higher RPMs are there to pass with ease at excessive speeds. Driving the older car felt clearly a step back in time (both the good and the bad).
This experience had me realize that buying a car based on sound alone is just plain stupid. Its what you do based on emotion before logic sets in. Might be a fun thing short term, but is it going to be long term? Also, who's to say what sounds better? Its preference...some people might not even want a loud car and would prefer Porsche to hurry up and release a quiet electric 911 that handles like a 911. I didn't buy mine to (primarily) listen to engine rev out...I bought it because of the way I fit in it and the way it handles. I could have bought a Tesla, but didn't...fact that it is fast and efficient didn't matter...I just didn't like how the car handled or felt going down a road. The 'Porsche handling' is what I'm after and if they put a silent electric engine into a future generation that still has this, I'll probably buy it.
The newer generation is just a better car. Its faster, has better power response (unless revved it out, the old NA has dead spots and hesitation from a deadstop with PDK), is more efficient MPG cruising, better tech, handling is tighter (a fact that keeps getting overlooked), rear axle steering makes the car more agile, wider tires, nicer steering wheel, and new PCM is a generation ahead. There are subtle improvements in the facelift like door handles are no longer a separate piece and slicker front bumper/ rear end. Aside from the engine, there are many technical internal improvements including the AWD system, PDK, and even things like exhaust. All these little things matter and stack up. The new car feels more precise compared to the old, yet some people don't care and get cause up in the sounds the car makes.
Forced induction makes cars faster <period>. Many prefer a car with a turbo on it and this is normally a sign of 'higher performance car.' Unless its a V8 with 13 MPG, an NA engine feels slow to some. Nearly all performance cars have turbos or are supercharged now-a-days. The technology works and a better question is why did Porsche take so long to putting turbos in the 911. They had it available as the highest end model out of reach for many. They're forced to add turbos to all their cars to stay competitive and relevant. So they did a good thing by creating a great engine that more of less acts like an NA, yet is amazingly quick, and still sounds like a flat 6. Isn't fast acceleration a hallmark of a good sports car and not the sound produced by gas coming out of tailpipes? People should celebrate the new engines instead of whine about 'how they like their NA engine sound.' Sounds get old after a while, but performance doesn't.
I think car people should move on and stop kicking the dead horse of 'my NA engine sounds better.' How are you guys going to accept that perhaps future cars will all be electric?
06-23-2018, 01:06 PM
#2
Race Car
I've owned .1 and .2. The .2 is a better DD IMO mostly due to the engine but also the major upgrade to PCM (which does matter).
06-23-2018, 01:08 PM
#3
06-23-2018, 01:17 PM
#4
Csb, glad you like your car
i think you are way overthinking it. People buy what they like, and enjoy to drive
as you mention cars have many characteristics and depending on the person some think certain characteristics are more important than others.
so, no, cars aren’t about acceleration, they are about many things, and not the same to all prople
What I don’t understand is people who don’t understand that people like different things.
why does it matter if / why someone values certain things more than you do?
i think you are way overthinking it. People buy what they like, and enjoy to drive
as you mention cars have many characteristics and depending on the person some think certain characteristics are more important than others.
so, no, cars aren’t about acceleration, they are about many things, and not the same to all prople
What I don’t understand is people who don’t understand that people like different things.
why does it matter if / why someone values certain things more than you do?
The following users liked this post:
991.1GTS (09-05-2019)
06-23-2018, 01:22 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Csb, glad you like your car
i think you are way overthinking it. People buy what they like, and enjoy to drive
as you mention cars have many characteristics and depending on the person some think certain characteristics are more important than others.
so, no, cars aren’t about acceleration, they are about many things, and not the same to all prople
What I don’t understand is people who don’t understand that people like different things.
why does it matter if / why someone values certain things more than you do?
i think you are way overthinking it. People buy what they like, and enjoy to drive
as you mention cars have many characteristics and depending on the person some think certain characteristics are more important than others.
so, no, cars aren’t about acceleration, they are about many things, and not the same to all prople
What I don’t understand is people who don’t understand that people like different things.
why does it matter if / why someone values certain things more than you do?
06-23-2018, 01:25 PM
#6
My wife and I test drove both .1 and .2 and it took 5 minutes to realize which one we liked better. Night and day aren't enough to compare the differences between the two.
OP glad you drove the cars multiple times and got the one you liked better. We are fortunate to drive expensive German metal and settling for anything less than what you like isn't acceptable.
OP glad you drove the cars multiple times and got the one you liked better. We are fortunate to drive expensive German metal and settling for anything less than what you like isn't acceptable.
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06-23-2018, 01:41 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
OP, why did you even bother? I see the members of the local chapter of the Society for the Promotion of Naturally Aspirated Flat Six Dominance have already convened their meeting.
Last edited by Jaws1; 06-23-2018 at 02:01 PM.
06-23-2018, 01:55 PM
#9
"Did anyone read that sacrilege post on rennlist claiming the NA engine isn't the best thing in the world? I say we have a vote to ban him before all our beliefs are invalidated for good. All in favor say aye!!!"
Hmmm...wonder what they'll be talking about 4 years later when Porsche releases hybrid 911.
06-23-2018, 02:10 PM
#11
LOL I can only imagine the conversation...
"Did anyone read that sacrilege post on rennlist claiming the NA engine isn't the best thing in the world? I say we have a vote to ban him before all our beliefs are invalidated for good. All in favor say aye!!!"
Hmmm...wonder what they'll be talking about 4 years later when Porsche releases hybrid 911.
"Did anyone read that sacrilege post on rennlist claiming the NA engine isn't the best thing in the world? I say we have a vote to ban him before all our beliefs are invalidated for good. All in favor say aye!!!"
Hmmm...wonder what they'll be talking about 4 years later when Porsche releases hybrid 911.
you start a rambling useless thread about how you like the 991.2 and everyone else should too. All while failing to realize people like different things (for example, look at the air cooled market). then think that everyone else is being defensive.
makes perfect sense...-_-
06-23-2018, 02:18 PM
#14
logic not a strong point for you, eh?
you start a rambling useless thread about how you like the 991.2 and everyone else should too. All while failing to realize people like different things (for example, look at the air cooled market). then think that everyone else is being defensive.
makes perfect sense...-_-
I'm not telling anyone what they should like...just pointing out my experience on NA vs turbo for these cars. I guess that's rambling?
I'm expecting people to get defensive though.
06-23-2018, 02:25 PM
#15