No full EV 911? I think bets are off
04-16-2018, 02:00 PM
#16
August Achtleitner, head of 911 development, stated in the most recent Christopherous issue that the 992 will not undergo electrification. He also stated the 911 will be the last car to use autonomous driving.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpor...iew/article01/
https://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpor...iew/article01/
04-16-2018, 02:06 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I don't see why a 928/911 approach can't be used here: Offer both, and let customers decide. I'd like to see the 911 continue as a gasoline-powered 2+2 with a flat six in the back, and suspect it will for as long as there is a business case. But I'd also love to see a more sporting spinoff from the Mission E—smaller, two doors, less weight, and more performance oriented. Could be a very interesting addition under—or replacement for—the slow-selling Boxster/Cayman line. Would also be a great city car as well as an autocross monster, methinks. In reality, the vast majority of my 911's trips are pretty short.
I just don't see why this has to be an "or." My 914 and my 911 would probably both stay put, but an electric for around town and 95% of my use is increasingly interesting to me—but there are no EVs on the market that excite me. A sporting electric gets pretty interesting as an "and" rather than an "or," for consumers as well as carmakers.
I just don't see why this has to be an "or." My 914 and my 911 would probably both stay put, but an electric for around town and 95% of my use is increasingly interesting to me—but there are no EVs on the market that excite me. A sporting electric gets pretty interesting as an "and" rather than an "or," for consumers as well as carmakers.
04-18-2018, 07:09 AM
#18
I don't see why a 928/911 approach can't be used here: Offer both, and let customers decide. I'd like to see the 911 continue as a gasoline-powered 2+2 with a flat six in the back, and suspect it will for as long as there is a business case. But I'd also love to see a more sporting spinoff from the Mission E—smaller, two doors, less weight, and more performance oriented.
Porsche doesn’t want to enter the market as the slow electric sports car manufacture. They’re resisting pressure by pointing out other manufactures can’t maintain their performance for more than a few sprints, but to be competitive they’re still being dragged to a price/ performance point that significantly exceeds their ICE engined cars. This makes sense, as technically it’s comparatively easy to put out 1000 hp electric hp; doubly so when CAFE and emmisions are taken into account.
The challenge then returns to that business case for the 911. If that car sticks with internal combustion, yet it’s slower and more expensive than its electric equivalents, will consumers still buy it? There will be die-hards like those that refused to give the patently “inferior” manual transmission up, but will there be enough? It seems that even if both models are produced side by side the outcome will largely be preordained- Porsche’s pricing strategy will decide (or is it Tesla’s?). Unless consumers have a significant change of heart...
04-18-2018, 01:38 PM
#19
This is a great discussion. I also have EVs (had the leaf, then i3, and now Tesla Model X).
The EV to me is a method to get from A to B in a cheap operating cost, luxurious, convenient type of way. The 911 is a passion and about the experience of A to anywhere, I don't care where B is because I just enjoy driving the car. To B through Z, where ever. It's about the journey.
Im not really sold on EVs as the enthusiasts' sports car. Not yet. Really don't like the Panamera e-Hybrid even in Turbo S form. Pure EV not sure yet either. Sure if someone can do the AMG Project One powertrain it's a different story (it's a F1 engine for the road and I can only imagine what the experience is like behind the wheel of that car).
I said it before but even if EVs are coming in full force I hope we can have our 911s both new and old as *at least* like the motorcycle down the road and for the tracks, and not get legislated off the road like another RLer put it. As long as we can co-exist. Fine if Porsche doesn't want to develop the 992+ as ICE only for business reasons I guess I can understand that, but I am with Pete you will have to pry my GT3 out of my cold dead heads picturing Ben Stiller in Zoolander desperately clutching onto his carry on luggage. I am hunting for a 993 for my next addition down the road anyways, not 992...
The EV to me is a method to get from A to B in a cheap operating cost, luxurious, convenient type of way. The 911 is a passion and about the experience of A to anywhere, I don't care where B is because I just enjoy driving the car. To B through Z, where ever. It's about the journey.
Im not really sold on EVs as the enthusiasts' sports car. Not yet. Really don't like the Panamera e-Hybrid even in Turbo S form. Pure EV not sure yet either. Sure if someone can do the AMG Project One powertrain it's a different story (it's a F1 engine for the road and I can only imagine what the experience is like behind the wheel of that car).
I said it before but even if EVs are coming in full force I hope we can have our 911s both new and old as *at least* like the motorcycle down the road and for the tracks, and not get legislated off the road like another RLer put it. As long as we can co-exist. Fine if Porsche doesn't want to develop the 992+ as ICE only for business reasons I guess I can understand that, but I am with Pete you will have to pry my GT3 out of my cold dead heads picturing Ben Stiller in Zoolander desperately clutching onto his carry on luggage. I am hunting for a 993 for my next addition down the road anyways, not 992...
04-18-2018, 02:18 PM
#20
Agreed so far. There are suggestions that I'll eventually change my mind. I've driven the Wrightspeed x1 for example- 1536 lbs, RWD, 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. As the technology matures the potential for ultra-light, instantaneous response sports cars that have the potential to have more adjustable chassis (easier to slide around) and the CG height of a gokart will likely be at least as attractive to me as bigger, heavier, normally aspirated, manual transmission ICE vehicles. The question in my mind is when we'll get to a true EV sports cars that I find more attractive. Until then I agree, EVs are A to B for me...
04-18-2018, 03:47 PM
#21
Race Car
The challenge I see is getting the two model lines to play nice with each other. The bar has been reset with all-electric performance cars, with 0-60 in the twos being the apparent bogey (or even ones for the Rimacs, etc).
Porsche doesn’t want to enter the market as the slow electric sports car manufacture. They’re resisting pressure by pointing out other manufactures can’t maintain their performance for more than a few sprints, but to be competitive they’re still being dragged to a price/ performance point that significantly exceeds their ICE engined cars. This makes sense, as technically it’s comparatively easy to put out 1000 hp electric hp; doubly so when CAFE and emmisions are taken into account.
The challenge then returns to that business case for the 911. If that car sticks with internal combustion, yet it’s slower and more expensive than its electric equivalents, will consumers still buy it? There will be die-hards like those that refused to give the patently “inferior” manual transmission up, but will there be enough? It seems that even if both models are produced side by side the outcome will largely be preordained- Porsche’s pricing strategy will decide (or is it Tesla’s?). Unless consumers have a significant change of heart...
Lots of great points.
04-18-2018, 11:09 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Replacing the ICE on a normal car with electric power while not easy, it is less challenging than replacing the ICE on a 911. As an aside, going to a diesel power plant on a 911 would be almost as challenging. It would completely change the character of the car. In a prior post, I opined a hybrid would be too heavy and cumbersome to make a good 911.
Porsche has developed the secret sauce for the 911, even with the new turbo models. Fifty plus years of development and evolution has given us great cars. Cars that we covet and love to drive, just for how they look, feel and sound. The challenge for Porsche is to find the secret sauce in electric power that induces the same level of coveting and excitement as an ICE Porsche. It will be a different product, and Porsche will hope you will love it for different reasons.
Porsche has developed the secret sauce for the 911, even with the new turbo models. Fifty plus years of development and evolution has given us great cars. Cars that we covet and love to drive, just for how they look, feel and sound. The challenge for Porsche is to find the secret sauce in electric power that induces the same level of coveting and excitement as an ICE Porsche. It will be a different product, and Porsche will hope you will love it for different reasons.