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My T was delivered today. I'm out camping with Cub Scouts this weekend...but will get a full review+ going as soon as I can get some quality seat time. My first impression was just "Wow". The biggest diff is the shifter - feels way more "race car" than I expected - very, very direct and mechanical. Way, way more direct than my 993. Ergos always drive the impressions, so I suspect this will have an outsize impact on folks opinion of the car. The other major thing I noticed on my inaugural run was the noise from the rear of the car. The lightweight glass really alters the soundscape.
Just read the article. I dont think the T has RAS in this comparison. The SPASM/LSD gets very high praise.
They also mention that the engine revs noticeably faster in the T and the exhaust note is different (I assume they both had PSE).
The reviewer felt as though there are some unadvertised differences with the car's programming because it makes the base feel a little less responsive/flat on the back to back drive.
I've always suspected that the GTS models have things that are not advertised (like throttle mapping, exhaust programming etc) to give it a special character. The T reminds me of a toned down GTS.
When I test drove a base .2 it was anything but flat, so I'm pretty excited to hear there is an actual difference because the c2 kicked butt.
This all sounds very promising! Am going to have to go and buy the mag!
Will be pleasantly surprised if the engine performs any differently to the standard 991.2 C2, as all I have read indicated that the two cars have exactly the same 370hp engine?
Just read the article. I dont think the T has RAS in this comparison. The SPASM/LSD gets very high praise.
They also mention that the engine revs noticeably faster in the T and the exhaust note is different (I assume they both had PSE).
The reviewer felt as though there are some unadvertised differences with the car's programming because it makes the base feel a little less responsive/flat on the back to back drive. I've always suspected that the GTS models have things that are not advertised (like throttle mapping, exhaust programming etc) to give it a special character. The T reminds me of a toned down GTS.
When I test drove a base .2 it was anything but flat, soIm pretty excited to hear there is an actual difference because the c2 kicked butt.
They play games like this with all their models. Not that they would ever come out and say it. What they do say however.... AP is on record saying the responsiveness of the electronic steering is so great the challenge is what to tune out. To give the driver only meaningful feedback not fatiguing vibrations. Chris Harris is on record (watch his video of the GT3) that almost all the improvement in GT3 steering feel is software. All other steering components are the same. Put together a whole bunch of similar comments about the tuning of RAS on different models. Again the components are all the same. Its not tuning in the old school sense of increasing spring rates. Its tuning in the digital sense of programming what happens when. Throttle response is probably the biggest and best of all of these. Biggest because it makes the biggest difference in driver impression of responsiveness, eagerness to rev, etc. Best because almost no drivers have the slightest clue they're being messed with on this. So yeah, they definitely tweak these to give each car the precise character they want for that model niche. Got it down to a science.
They play games like this with all their models. Not that they would ever come out and say it. What they do say however.... AP is on record saying the responsiveness of the electronic steering is so great the challenge is what to tune out. To give the driver only meaningful feedback not fatiguing vibrations. Chris Harris is on record (watch his video of the GT3) that almost all the improvement in GT3 steering feel is software. All other steering components are the same. Put together a whole bunch of similar comments about the tuning of RAS on different models. Again the components are all the same. Its not tuning in the old school sense of increasing spring rates. Its tuning in the digital sense of programming what happens when. Throttle response is probably the biggest and best of all of these. Biggest because it makes the biggest difference in driver impression of responsiveness, eagerness to rev, etc. Best because almost no drivers have the slightest clue they're being messed with on this. So yeah, they definitely tweak these to give each car the precise character they want for that model niche. Got it down to a science.
Well, if they've done that with the T, I'll be a happy customer! ✅
The reviewer says that the T is a no brainer in terms of value for money, compared to the C2, if you value the sporty bits that the T adds. And obviously there are some T features that cannot be added to a 'base' C2.
He talks highly of the effect of the shortened gear lever and the shorter final drive ratio. But like every other reviewer, he says that the T would be better still with the 6 speed box from the GT3, 911R and GT4 etc.
As suggested by Chuck, the writer speculates that "ECU trickery" might be responsible for the extra eagerness and alertness of the engine, compared to the C2, which he is driving back to back.
Again, like many other reviewers, the writer thinks that Porsche could have gone further with the T - partly by fitting the above-mentioned 6-speed box and also by going further on the weight reducing/stripping out exercise.
I don’t mean to highjack this thread but have been curious about this question and I may be naive about it also...when I spec similar T and C2S models on configurator, the difference is about $3k. Can someone explain all the hype regarding the T? Why not buy an S? Thanks.
I don’t mean to highjack this thread but have been curious about this question and I may be naive about it also...when I spec similar T and C2S models on configurator, the difference is about $3k. Can someone explain all the hype regarding the T? Why not buy an S? Thanks.
I'm surprised the difference is as little as that. The writer of the above article specced a C2 as close as he could to a T, and the C2 came out more expensive and was still missing some T features. Plus, some people actually prefer the engine from the C2 rather than the one in the S. The main benefit of the S would be the brakes, I would say. And the 991.2 T may be rarer than a C2S. Each to their own, as thankfully we all have differing likes and preferences.
I don’t mean to highjack this thread but have been curious about this question and I may be naive about it also...when I spec similar T and C2S models on configurator, the difference is about $3k. Can someone explain all the hype regarding the T? Why not buy an S? Thanks.
Mainly personal preference and budget. When you add chrono, pse, and sportl 4 ways etc. the difference is closer to 10k. For 7k more than the S you configure you can buy a GTS i guess theyre all good options. I ordered a T over the base, not over the S. My wallet set the limit for me. It was a coinflip between the T and a C4 with PDK. I bought into the hype and went for the more engaging drive. This purchase will inform the next one for me, only time will tell.
I don’t mean to highjack this thread but have been curious about this question and I may be naive about it also...when I spec similar T and C2S models on configurator, the difference is about $3k. Can someone explain all the hype regarding the T? Why not buy an S? Thanks.
Your post inspired me to do a little experiment, configuring a Carrera and Carrera S as close to a T as I could save the SportTex (which requires full leather in anything but a T) and the painted dash.
Carrera optioned close to "T"
$99,850 plus delivery
Missing: SPASM, LSD, PTV, short-shift, light glass, sound deadening, SportTex, painted dash http://www.porsche-code.com/PJZ9ZZC7
Carrera S optioned close to "T"
$113,150 plus delivery
Missing: Short-shift, light glass, sound deadening, SportTex, painted dash
Adds: 50 more hp, S brakes http://www.porsche-code.com/PJQTNN33
Then I confirgured a T the way I would probably order it, less a couple of options to keep it more applicable for others and because I am not sure I would upgrade an S to PCCB due to where the price begins to go (too close to nice GTS or even a GT3).
Carrera to near T specs in GT Silver
$102,600 plus delivery
Missing: SPASM, LSD, PTV, short-shift, light glass, sound deadening, SportTex, painted dash http://www.porsche-code.com/PJ8G7FL1
Carrera S to near T specs in GT Silver
$119,990 plus delivery
Missing: Short-shift, light glass, sound deadening, SportTex, painted dash
Adds: 50 more hp, S brakes http://www.porsche-code.com/PJK8QN42
The above is of course imperfect, but had me once again impressed with the value equation presented by the plain Carrera 7MT. A friend popped by with a 991.2 GT3 PDK press car recently, and it was every bit as good as the 991.2 GT3 6MT I drove last summer and the 991.2 GT3 Touring I drove late last year back-to-back with the T. But no matter who was driving, it had nothing on the Carrera for pace on damp or wet back roads—and while it is much more of an experience, the Carrera isn't without its charms. They're quieter, but they're there. It's just a really good car.
I'd like to drive a Carrera 7MT back to back with a T at some point, because the differences were *this* close perceptionally after stepping out of my Carrera 7MT in San Francisco and stepping into a T in France—on the kind of roads that really help you sort a car. The biggest difference in terms of perception was the shifter, which was really nice but I am told is a "two-second" mod—and I could live without PSE on a base Carrera, shaving its price to $96,800~ and keeping silver wheels I happen to prefer with more exterior color options, too.
I like the T. A lot. I like that it exists, and adds another layer. I think it is a very cool new direction, and I hope we will see it develop into a recurring model, much as the Cayman R > GT4. Or 997 GTS > 991 GTS. I think the T concept has legs. My only wish is that PSE was an option, and maybe a T-specific sport suspension. But the bigger picture is Porsche saw a sport for a driver-focused 911 based on the standard car rather than the gilded ones. And that is great.
03-02-2018, 11:53 PM
