Should I end my dislike for CL Wheels
02-27-2018, 04:08 PM
#46
Pro
Thread Starter
I've had a GTS and a GT3 with CL wheels. Hate them! To change tires:
Pop off cap. Jack car. Put someone behind wheel, stomp on brake. Use monster bar to break wheel loose. Remove wheel, change tire. Lube up the splines (heavily) and cones (lightly) with the world's messiest grease. Install wheel. Torque to 440 (IIRC) lb-ft. Back off torque wrench 90 degrees, then repeat. Fiddle with hub core until it pops out flush with end of splines. Good luck getting that to work on first try! Reinstall cap.
Whew. One wheel done, 3 more to go. What a freaking pain. I suppose if car was street only, and tiers last a long time, fine. If you track, and go through oh, 3 or 4 sets of tires in a year - that's a LOT of hassle. Not to mention that you have to stand over the guy at the tire shop to make he does it right.
And don't count on the dealer getting it right. On more than one occasion, direct from the dealer, I've discovered the hub core wasn't fully extended and so the wheel was NOT properly attached. I always check at the track to make sure they're all in the proper position.
Or - five bolts. A normal torque wrench will work. Recheck torque at track. WINNER. WINNER. WINNER.
DMoore
'15 GT3
registered CL hater
Pop off cap. Jack car. Put someone behind wheel, stomp on brake. Use monster bar to break wheel loose. Remove wheel, change tire. Lube up the splines (heavily) and cones (lightly) with the world's messiest grease. Install wheel. Torque to 440 (IIRC) lb-ft. Back off torque wrench 90 degrees, then repeat. Fiddle with hub core until it pops out flush with end of splines. Good luck getting that to work on first try! Reinstall cap.
Whew. One wheel done, 3 more to go. What a freaking pain. I suppose if car was street only, and tiers last a long time, fine. If you track, and go through oh, 3 or 4 sets of tires in a year - that's a LOT of hassle. Not to mention that you have to stand over the guy at the tire shop to make he does it right.
And don't count on the dealer getting it right. On more than one occasion, direct from the dealer, I've discovered the hub core wasn't fully extended and so the wheel was NOT properly attached. I always check at the track to make sure they're all in the proper position.
Or - five bolts. A normal torque wrench will work. Recheck torque at track. WINNER. WINNER. WINNER.
DMoore
'15 GT3
registered CL hater
With CLs, there is UNNECESSARY complexity and this is just for looks. I can totally see screw up happening at mechanic shop (these days people very distracted).
Complexity kills, simplicity wins
I live outside of Chicago so will be swapping twice a year (winter rims and summer rims).
Then again if I decide to install different rims if decide to go to the track.
Plus, if I take a road trip and need a tire patched, it's a bit of a pain to deal with a local tire place if you have center locks.
And, lastly, I will be doing Euro delivery so want the ability to quickly and easily remove a rim if needed while in Europe (just in case I need a tire repair).
The negatives far outweigh the positives (looks only IMO) - and, this is coming from someone who has had both.
Literally the only thing better about a center lock is the way it looks - that's it.
Then again if I decide to install different rims if decide to go to the track.
Plus, if I take a road trip and need a tire patched, it's a bit of a pain to deal with a local tire place if you have center locks.
And, lastly, I will be doing Euro delivery so want the ability to quickly and easily remove a rim if needed while in Europe (just in case I need a tire repair).
The negatives far outweigh the positives (looks only IMO) - and, this is coming from someone who has had both.
Literally the only thing better about a center lock is the way it looks - that's it.
Looks like some bean counter at Porsche HQ decided to make CL wheels and force it down on the cool models. If I can't use airgun to change tires like a Pit Crew, then it is all for looks. People who have it, enjoy it. I really can't seem to digest the headaches that could come with it. My yearly driving habits rake in close to 15K Miles, heck 2 years ago the average was close to 18-20K / year. Yeah, I love to take cruises on the highway.
02-27-2018, 04:14 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
It's on there.
I'd pay money to not get the center locks
In this case it was free - good thing, because my finger was hurting from clicking the option boxes.
02-27-2018, 04:25 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
02-27-2018, 05:08 PM
#49
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've had a GTS and a GT3 with CL wheels. Hate them! To change tires:
Pop off cap. Jack car. Put someone behind wheel, stomp on brake. Use monster bar to break wheel loose. Remove wheel, change tire. Lube up the splines (heavily) and cones (lightly) with the world's messiest grease. Install wheel. Torque to 440 (IIRC) lb-ft. Back off torque wrench 90 degrees, then repeat. Fiddle with hub core until it pops out flush with end of splines. Good luck getting that to work on first try! Reinstall cap.
Whew. One wheel done, 3 more to go. What a freaking pain. I suppose if car was street only, and tiers last a long time, fine. If you track, and go through oh, 3 or 4 sets of tires in a year - that's a LOT of hassle. Not to mention that you have to stand over the guy at the tire shop to make he does it right.
And don't count on the dealer getting it right. On more than one occasion, direct from the dealer, I've discovered the hub core wasn't fully extended and so the wheel was NOT properly attached. I always check at the track to make sure they're all in the proper position.
Or - five bolts. A normal torque wrench will work. Recheck torque at track. WINNER. WINNER. WINNER.
DMoore
'15 GT3
registered CL hater
Pop off cap. Jack car. Put someone behind wheel, stomp on brake. Use monster bar to break wheel loose. Remove wheel, change tire. Lube up the splines (heavily) and cones (lightly) with the world's messiest grease. Install wheel. Torque to 440 (IIRC) lb-ft. Back off torque wrench 90 degrees, then repeat. Fiddle with hub core until it pops out flush with end of splines. Good luck getting that to work on first try! Reinstall cap.
Whew. One wheel done, 3 more to go. What a freaking pain. I suppose if car was street only, and tiers last a long time, fine. If you track, and go through oh, 3 or 4 sets of tires in a year - that's a LOT of hassle. Not to mention that you have to stand over the guy at the tire shop to make he does it right.
And don't count on the dealer getting it right. On more than one occasion, direct from the dealer, I've discovered the hub core wasn't fully extended and so the wheel was NOT properly attached. I always check at the track to make sure they're all in the proper position.
Or - five bolts. A normal torque wrench will work. Recheck torque at track. WINNER. WINNER. WINNER.
DMoore
'15 GT3
registered CL hater
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
02-27-2018, 05:19 PM
#50
Race Car
You're a self-proclaimed center lock hater, and I respect that. I'm sure track vs. street duty changes your perspective. That said, your description of a wheel change is a bit dramatic. If you applied the same dramatic prose to a five-lug wheel change, then it would look something like this:
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
My humble personal view is that if you are going to track the car, get the five lug wheels. If you are going to swap out tires (summer/winter) twice a year, consider the five lug wheels but the centerlocks might be doable, too. If you aren't going to do either and don't use Joe's tire shop down the street, you will probably be just fine with centerlock wheels.
I opted for the centerlock wheels on my 991.2GTS build, arriving soon I hope! I won't track it and I probably won't do a winter wheel set this time, at least at this point. YMMV.
02-27-2018, 05:20 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Thank You
As for option boxes I am a no option type of guy. Except for the $420 self dimming mirror and the freebies including Leather Wheel I am at $122,170. If I run it any higher I would be getting a lightly used 991.1 GT3. Peter
02-27-2018, 06:14 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
...I love my centre locks and think anyone choosing 5 stud as an option is mad. A poorer solution with a narrower wheel, possibly heavier too. Plus the price difference you will lose on reselling a car wiith 5 studs if they were available with CL’s will more than cover your equipment outlay if you do want to change your own wheels
Resale value might be higher for properly optioned 5lug wheels option. It is more convenient as many pointed out and more rare to find on the market.
02-27-2018, 06:48 PM
#53
Nordschleife Master
You're a self-proclaimed center lock hater, and I respect that. I'm sure track vs. street duty changes your perspective. That said, your description of a wheel change is a bit dramatic. If you applied the same dramatic prose to a five-lug wheel change, then it would look something like this:
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
02-27-2018, 08:46 PM
#55
You're a self-proclaimed center lock hater, and I respect that. I'm sure track vs. street duty changes your perspective. That said, your description of a wheel change is a bit dramatic. If you applied the same dramatic prose to a five-lug wheel change, then it would look something like this:
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
Jack the car to raise the wheel off the ground. If it's a front wheel, then you need to get someone to stomp on the brake as you break the lug nuts first. Otherwise, you can break them loose before the tire is raised from the ground. To do this, you have to open the bonnet of the car (or the glovebox), and fumble around until you find the OE Porsche wheel lock tool. Get down on your knees and determine which lug nut will accept the wheel lock. Put the wheel lock in place. Break the first lug nut free. Then move to the second lug nut, and break it free. Then move to the third lug nut and break it free. Then move to the fourth lug nut and break it free. Finally, break the fifth lug nut free. Once this is done, remove the first lug nut. Install the centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the second lug nut. If you have PCCB, then add another centering tool and thread it into place. Remove the third, fourth, and fifth lug nuts. Remove the wheel. Align new wheel with centering tools, and slide it into place. Insert one lug nut and snug the wheel against the hub. Insert a second lug nut. Remove the centering tool(s). Insert remaining lug nuts. Identify locking lug nut and attach wheel lock. Tighten first lug nut. Tighten second lug nut. Tighten third lug nut. Tighten fourth lug nut. Tighten fifth lug nut. Repeat this procedure in the classic star pattern with a torque wrench to to achieve recommended torque. Repeat. Whew! One wheel done!
We can agree to disagree. I just find that there are so many things that can go wrong with a CL installation, mostly because the procedure requires special tools and is unfamiliar to everyone except a dealer. On the other hand, every tire shop under the sun has a torque wrench that goes to 118 lb-ft and knows how to deal with a five bolt wheel. Just my $.02. YMMV.
DMoore
'15 GT3 (with CL's)
02-28-2018, 01:38 AM
#56
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Giving credit where it's due - that's a hilarious response! Heck, I could have made my description even longer!
We can agree to disagree. I just find that there are so many things that can go wrong with a CL installation, mostly because the procedure requires special tools and is unfamiliar to everyone except a dealer. On the other hand, every tire shop under the sun has a torque wrench that goes to 118 lb-ft and knows how to deal with a five bolt wheel. Just my $.02. YMMV.
DMoore
'15 GT3 (with CL's)
We can agree to disagree. I just find that there are so many things that can go wrong with a CL installation, mostly because the procedure requires special tools and is unfamiliar to everyone except a dealer. On the other hand, every tire shop under the sun has a torque wrench that goes to 118 lb-ft and knows how to deal with a five bolt wheel. Just my $.02. YMMV.
DMoore
'15 GT3 (with CL's)
I suspect my my opinion would be different if I had a car that saw track duty and had more frequent wheel changes. For me and the way I use my car, centerlocks are great. For some others, maybe not so great.
