Hi all,

I've been looking at the 911T and comparing what you get verse speccing a similar C2. I understand that the manual gearbox is supposed to get unique gearing. I have not seen anything on the PDK gearing for the 911T. I noticed playing with the configurator that the PDK cost more than a C2 or C2S. Since its costing more, does this mean it will be unique for 911T? Does anyone know anything on it? Or where to look?

I know I'd like the manual, but as I'm aging I worry that my joints will not support enjoying the shifting and the PDK seems the safe option. This car will be a dream car for me as I have been saving "what seems to be forever" and want new. I'm not the typical purchaser that makes $300k per/yr. So this would be my last hurrah and most cherished posession and will keep it till I croak! Ha ha.. I still hope I will get many years of use and plenty of weekly driving and not let it be a total garage Queen.

Thanks!

 

I have zero intel on your question, but your assertion that this will be your first and last 911 and it needs to be the perfect one, etc. inspired me to reply.

a) first, please, please, please everybody, this is not a PDK vs. 7M flame war.

b) this is anecdotal, based on what I've read on Rennlist and my own personal experience.

So here goes: I've never heard of anyone who bought a manual 911 and then, well before he/she would have normally moved to another car, did so because he realized it was a mistake and he should have gotten a PDK. I have personally done the opposite, and read of multiple people (six or seven) on here who have prematurely traded or sold a PDK 911 to go back to manual.

Exceptions would no doubt be in the case of sudden injury that forces a person out of a manual, but I've not actually heard of that happening.

Bear in mind, I'm not talking about somebody who normally trades every two years going from a manual to a PDK at the end of two years. I'm talking about those of us who typically hang onto the Porsches we love for many years trading one quickly to get back to manual.

My story was that I ordered the 2015 991.1 GTS2 seen in the avatar to the left. Got it exactly as I wanted, including trying PDK for the first time. Two 30-45 minute test drives had convinced me this was a good choice for me. When the car came in I was in love. Two weeks later (I'm sure the threads are still archived here somewhere) I was having some "what have you DONE?" types of feelings. I tamped them down and made the most of it.

Fortunately, I was able to trade laterally into a 2016 GT4 (6M) for even money, which got me into a car I preferred, with a transmission I preferred, for practically no cost. This was only possible because the GT4 was a ridiculous bargain (in the Porsche world) and even though it cost me more than MSRP for a year-old 4500-mile model, it was still just even with the GTS that had depreciated almost $30,000 in the two years.

My point in all this being: think long and hard about moving into a new transmission you're not used to. Since you're talking about your lifelong dream sportscar, and I imagine all of your sportscar experience has been in a manual, you might want to think about sticking with what you know pleases you.

Just a thought. Again, I sure don't want to stir up a war here or divert your thread into that territory. I have great respect for PDK and if I were using the car mainly as a track car, it would be PDK all the way.

 

Well, I believe the PDK comes with standard final drive gearing (same as C2) and no mechanical LSD while the MT has the same, lower, gearing of the CS and the mechanical LSD.

 

I can relate to the OP. I am only 43 and starting to have knee trouble. Need to get to Dr. In the meantime, driving my 911 has literally become a pain. It hurts to clutch. And it pains me to not be able to enjoy the car.

 

From someone who owns both a GT4 and a GTS pdk: my advice is get the pdk and don't read too much into the different pricing. Porsche often prices the same option differently depending on the model. For example PCCBs were around $2K less on the GT4 then they are on the GT3 and it's the exact same rotor/caliper assembly. I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche priced a lot of the options higher on that model. However if it did come with the PDKs from the GT3, that would be pretty cool.

 

Congratulations on (the way to) fulfllling a lont-time dream. It's worth the wait!

Regarding the gearing, here is an exerpt from 'Car and Driver' review:
........The engine is bolted to a standard seven-speed manual transaxle fitted with a 3.59:1 final-drive ratio—slightly shorter than the base Carrera’s 3.44:1—and a limited-slip differential. Porsche’s dual-clutch automatic (PDK) is optional and offers the same gearset, although it uses the taller of the two final drives. .........

According to 'evo', the gearing is same as C2 S; and, they deemed the gearing to be still tall! And, no, it's not unique to T. That might require re-certification. So, sadly, don't expect super low gearing for spirited backroad runs that would make you row through gears in a hurry!

I would echo NoGaBiker's comments above regarding choosing MT over PDK. This is your dream ride. Get fit; pump weight and build up strength on joints! You "can" drive a MT till you kick the bucket! Unless you have an ailment today, don't short-change yourself with speculative health issues. If you are fit today, work on staying that way! Let the 911 motivate you to do so. If you have been a life-long MT driver, you will regret the switch; at least, most do.

 

Somebody else just posted up a new thread about going from PDK back to manual in their new 911. Which is not to say that Manual is better than PDK in any way; just that it seems that a small number of people who try PDK regret it enough to go back to manual on their next 911. Most people enjoy their PDKs just fine, obviously, since they make up 90% of the 991s extant.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1040904-new-car.html

 

Regardless of which one you go with, you'll probably regret your choice a certain percentage of the time. Don't fool yourself into thinking there is only one right answer.

Traffic conditions can make a big difference, so don't forget to take that into consideration.

 

PDK does cost less in C2 or C2S ($3210) but their Sorts Chrono Package with PDK option also increase the price from $2090 (with manual) to $2610 (with PDK).

In the Carrera lines where the Sport Chrono Package is standard like the Carrera T(it has everything in the Sport Chrono Pkg except the clock) and Carrera GTS, the PDK cost $3730 instead of $3210 due to extra function in the Sport Chrono Pkg for the PDK.

 

I drove the 911 T manual in France a couple weeks ago, but I never climbed behind the wheel of a PDK version. I'm checking to see if the PDK is identical to the unit dropped into the Carrera and Carrera S.

While I ordered a MT on my '18 Carrera, today's PDK is an impressive gearbox that I rarely curse... it's near-perfect. If you have any doubts about operating a clutch, the PDK is not a compromise.

- Mike

 

This.

After testing the PDK extensively I opted for the MT and even though I'm glad I did, there are times where I wish I had it.

This is basically the argument I gave the wifey to justify a second 911.

Ask me how well that went over...

 

 

With most other automatics the choice is more straightforward, because most automatics suck. Meaning, all of them except for PDK and maybe some of the latest hardware from Ferrari and other exotics that I haven't personally driven. I would never take a run-of-the-mill slushbox or half-assed DCT implementation over a Porsche manual.

However, PDK doesn't suck, so there's less room to make sweeping generalizations about the gearbox that someone else should order.

I've heard terrible things about the traffic in the Atlanta area, so it's hard to believe that you've never found yourself stuck in a situation where the manual is no fun at all, leaving you wishing you had your old PDK car back. I'd understand if you said you regretted it only 0.1% of the time. That's probably about where I am. Maybe the answer really is "0% regret" in your case, but I suspect that perspective is so rare that it wouldn't be useful to anyone else who's struggling with the decision.

One other thing worth pointing out is that the 6-speed in the GT4 is frequently considered superior to the 7-speed that goes into the 911s. The latter is a PDK with a single pedal-operated clutch and a Rube Goldberg-designed shift linkage. Are you sure you'd be as big a fan of that gearbox as you are of the 6-speed?

 

Stuck in commute traffic pumping the clutch for an hour i regret not having PDK. Would i swap out of a manual...no way.

My long term plan is to get another 911 or 718 with PDK. First world problems.

Neither is better or worse. Go with what you are most happy with and accept it will occasionally be inconvenient.

 

I prefer being stuck in traffic with a manual to being stuck in traffic with a PDK -- it gives me something I enjoy doing (shifting) and lets me make fun zoom-zoom noises with the motor when downshifting. In fact, when stuck in traffic with my PDK GTS, I kept it in manual so I had something to do. I just didn't have as much to do.

Yes, PDK is outstanding, the absolute cream of the crop. The few other DCTs Ive driven (BMW, Maserati's Cambiocorso) were inferior, at least a few years ago. While it can't think like me in Automatic (and therefore I never drove it in Auto except on track or driving like a banshee in the mountains), it can be driven in Manual anytime you want, and it behaves itself very nearly in perfect alignment with my wishes when in Manual.

No, my only complaint is the fact that feathering the clutch during non-WOT throttle accel and decel is a fun thing for me to do; I just enjoy it. I thought its absence wouldn't bother me, that I'd enjoy the driving experience differently but just as much with PDK -- that wasn't the case.

And yes, you're right that the 6M in the 981s (and presumably the 911R and new GT3) is a better, more precise gearbox. That makes no sense to me, given that the 981 has a 7speed PDK also, but was given a bespoke 6M box, but the Carrera has to have a PDK-derived 7M? At any rate, it wouldn't matter to me. My other DD is a 2014 Wrangler 6M whose MB-derived 6M is about as bad a box as you'll find on a modern vehicle. I love it. It's endearing.

While my quirks in this regard may seem strange to you (or may not), I don't think it's unusual. Again, witness the number of people who have incurred considerable expense to switch from their one PDK 911 back to a manual.

Finally... I feel like by answering these questions, Noah, as honestly as I can, you may perceive me as being on a Manual crusade; such is the nature of Rennlist 991. I hope you can believe me when I say I'm not at all. If Porsche -- like Ferrari -- only offered PDK I'd almost certainly stick with the brand and enjoy PDK very much. It's the fact that true manuals still exist out there that made me unsettled when contemplating driving a DCT forevermore. Anyway, I just keep going into detail because I have a suspicion HighwayToHell (the OP) may be cut from similar cloth as me in this regard. If he is, he'll think long and hard about the decision and maybe spend a long time testing. If he's not, he'll dismiss my rambling and be none the poorer for it.

Cheers!