K-A

You see 991.1 owners as insecure, 991.1 owners see you as insecure. Potato, potato.

Nobody in their right mind is dissing the performance of the 991.2. Why would they? It's remarkable. It's the same engineering team that designed our .1's, and it has to top said .1's, and they added turbos on it. Of course it'll be excellent.

But no 0-60 time will change what WE prefer. As another poster noted, the new GTS with PSE leaves a lot to be desired, sound wise. I drove a .2 and it doesn't sound within the same realm as a .1, especially with PSE (my Base .1 has an X Pipe and I think it's the best sound any car makes, I rode in a stock .2 TT S with all its 580 HP and it didn't compare to the sounds my car makes at high revs).

It comes to, what's more important? To me, a mid-high 12 second car (.1 Base) is plenty powered for real roads to where the sound is perhaps my favorite part of the car.

I'm not surprised a GTS will put up faster acceleration times than a GT3. But a GT3 could be 1 full second slower to 60, and I'll take it without a millisecond of doubt over the GTS. And it will hold value at a level no turbocharged .2 (minus the GT2) could dream of.

You can herald the very real and very accurate performance virtues all you want, it's indisputable, but it won't get those of us who bought 911's for the more "traditional" merits to consider trading in (and trust, .1's aren't much cheaper than low spec and/or used .2's with how they've been holding values). If a 911 always sounded like a .2, I can't say that it would connect to me on as soulful a level. 911's built a reputation for being some of if not THE the most visceral and unique sounding cars out there.

And that affects all of us, because we all want 911's to maintain emotive value, as that's what's kept it so strong and coveted, allowing us to enjoy good resale values and high level of community participation. And if 911's aren't aurally pleasing (anymore) in an era where automakers are touting how good their sports cars sound, it can start to affect the future lineage (N/A 911's will always be coveted, as far as I'm concerned).

Moral of the story: 991.2's ARE much better engineered performers than .1's. 991.'s ARE much more soulful and engaging using the most objective measures that are considered when discussing "drivers cars."

Torque is great, but for 50+ years, 911 owners have been touting how their cars are superior to far torquier cars not just despite not being torquey, but BECAUSE. It's part of the classic potion. Now, Carreras get turbos and everyone acts like low end torque is a new phenomenon. Though, I agree with you in that nobody applies it like Porsche does (nobody applies much of anything like they do).

sticky

I do not. I see some insecure 991.1 owners who are very vocal and post misleading things and go through extreme mental gymnastics to convince themselves the car in their garage is as good as the 991.2.

The jump from the 991.1 to 991.2 is the biggest jump in Carrera performance in Porsche history. With the 997.2 to 991.1 it was just a few hp. Now, it's a ton of torque under the curve plus more power with much more potential on tap should one want it.

Actually, there are people doing it. I've seen posters here saying a tune doesn't work or add anything despite the fact a tuned 991.2 C4S is running 11.1 on 21 inch rims. Highly impressive.

I see people coming into 991.2 tuning threads and discounting tuners or saying that GIAC or Cobb are 'dangerous' options. Just absurd garbage like this.

A guy in this thread the other day was saying the 991.2 GTS isn't even useful and the 'laggier' turbos won't improve the 0-60 or be useful. Can you believe that crap? LOL take a look at the video to see how useful those turbos are. A brand new GT3 4.0 is getting spanked.

I wrote buy whatever makes you happy and I think it is great Porsche offers a choice to buyers unlike BMW M who made the choice for buyers. I'm a strong, if the not the strongest, proponent of naturally aspirated M engines on the internet.

I'm not delusional though. I don't think the 3.4 liter 991.1 motor is anything special. I think it's weak, outdated, and overpriced and that is exactly how the 991.2 3.0 makes it look. Not to mention the 991.2 9A2 is receiving engineering awards the 9A1 never did. It's simply a better engineered motor.

I'm not saying the torque makes the car I'm saying it makes the 991.2 fun. The 911 is very well rounded and that is part of the appeal. The turbocharged 911 is nothing new by the way. Turbo performance is a hallmark of the 911 lineage.

Also, I think the comments about the negative aural qualities of the 991.2 9A2 are overstated mostly by people who don't own one. I like the sound a lot more than I thought I would based on comments I read and the turbos add an exotic touch. IMO, it sounds better but this is a subjective point anyway.

I made my choice with my wallet. Make yours. I will continue to correct erroneous posts though especially when it comes to performance.

Enjoy the video. Just imagine the bus lengths the GTS will put on the GT3 with some tuning. I know, I know. That doesn't matter to you. It does to me though. Oh, and a 12 second car is slow.

Rezus

By your logic the F8x M3 is much ahead of of e92 in terms of performance as well. More torque, more power, faster everywhere, a lot of people still prefer e92 and you seem to be one of them, what gives?

sticky

Do you only like one food? Do you always get the same flavor of ice cream?

Rezus

No do you?

Facts are still facts, enjoying a ride is not all based on performance numbers. If faster is better then why chose the worse choice? Get it straight before getting to ice cream

randr

^^^Rezus he did ~7:19 in the 991.2 GT3 and and ~7.23 in the 991.2 GTS.

The 7.12 time was done by a Porsche works team driver (Lars Kern), fantastic time for sure but nontheless a works driver.

The reason people rate the Sports Auto tests is they use OEM cars and are all encompassing e.g. MAHA dyno runs, corner weights, range of handling tests plus runs around the Ring and Hock Kers. Chris Gebhardt is a journalist racer and does all their track tests. (due to his consistency and track knowledge).

Apples to apples, more or less

sticky

So you're reiterating what I stated posts ago or just not reading?

Would you mind quoting where I wrote it is solely about performance numbers?

Archimedes

Would surprise me if the GTS wasn't quicker than the GT3 0-60. Who cares. I'd give my left nut for a new manual GT3-T, but you couldn't give me a .2 GTS to drive. Different strokes for different folks. Good we have choices.

Rezus

I believe that is inaccurate. He did 7.18 in GT3 and 7.24 in GTS.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...st-118443.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...s-nurburgring/

Rezus

Sorry I can't help you if you don't even know what you are talking about. The sum of your argument has been that the newer, faster more powerful car is "better" and others that feel their slower car is "better" are twisting the imagination or something like that. Now all of a sudden you seem to think the same exact scenario does not apply to M3 evolution, come on make up your mind.
P.S not even talking about tuning potential, you better not line up next to a F82 M3 at the light

sticky

I see you suffer from an issue with reading comprehension.

I'll be sure to not use any big words or long sentences.

From just a few posts above:

And:

And:

And my argument summed up:

Try READING those over. Take as much time as you need.

I better not line up next to an F82? Why? What does my E92 M3 have to fear:


The M3 is not the same scenario. BMW does not offer a naturally aspirated engine in the M3 chassis any longer. As already stated it is fantastic Porsche does so buyers can make their own choice instead of having a choice forced on them.

Thanks for playing.

TexasPorschelover

All Porsches are awesome. I had a 991.1 4s and have a 2018 991.2 GTS and a 1976 911s outlaw. They are all terrific. BUT my 991.2 GTS is superior in almost every way to the 991.1 4S except sound. My personal but informed opinion. Watch this.

https://youtu.be/mRMJfjhVFBQ

TexasPorschelover

All Porsches are awesome. I had a 991.1 4s and have a 2018 991.2 GTS and a 1976 911s outlaw. They are all terrific. BUT my 991.2 GTS is superior in almost every way to the 991.1 4S except sound. My personal but informed opinion. Porsche has been using turbocharged engines for decades in production cars and its racing program with huge success. Watch this also.

https://youtu.be/mRMJfjhVFBQ

Rezus

Lol, you are hilarious, same sticky that got banned from M3 forum. Trust me my reading comprehension is beyond your wild dreams. Thanks but no thanks I am not playing your childish games.
BTW that is no longer NA M3

randr

Sorry thats inaccurate (~ means approximately). Checkout the Sport Auto videos in the GT3 section

991.2 GT3 7:18.2
991.2 GTS 7:23.7
488GTB 7:21.6
991.1 GT3RS ~7:25
981 GT4 ~7:42
(all driven by CG)