I need some urgent sanity checking because I'm being pressured by my dealer to finalize an order now and sell my existing car now. I hate to post "need reactions NOW" threads, but that's the position the dealer is putting me in.

I'm looking at a GTS 4 cabriolet order. This is not a "critique my build" post, this is a "am I negotiating correctly" post, but details are probably important.

My build looks like this: GTS 4 Cabriolet, $156,810 total.

N1 Sapphire Blue Metallic
1V Cabriolet Roof in Black
AZ Leather Interior in Black
P3E Premium Package Plus i.c.w. Power Sport Seats (14-way)
748 Power Folding Exterior Mirrors
487 Manual Transmission
474 Front Axle Lift System
470 Rear Axle Steering
433 20" Carrera S Wheels (yeah, 5 lugs rather than centerlocks)
457 Lane Change Assist (LCA)
714 Deletion of Alcantara
P06 Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package
583 Smoking Package
581 Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell
XHW Heated Multifunction Steering Wheel in Carbon Fiber Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
9VL BOSE Surround Sound System

Motivation for change is 60% manual transmission, 20% getting some performance options like Sport Chrono and Rear Wheel Steering, 10% the prestige of a GTS build, 10% getting a car that's exactly what I want. All percentages are completely made up on the spot.

This is the car I'm selling:


It currently has 27,500 miles on it. I've added front clear bra and an aftermarket reversing camera.

Talked to Porsche of Nashua. They offered 3% on a 4S build, no figures on a GTS 4.

Talked to Porsche of Westwood. They offered 4% on a GTS 4, 6% on a 4S, because I'd purchased cars from them before. Trade in offer on my car was "high 60's."

Talked to Porsche of Norwell. They initially offered 2% on the GTS, I said Westwood was already talking 4%, they said they'd match 4% and offer $75k on my car. But only if I sold my car to them this week, rather than when the GTS came in.

The reasoning being that it's nearing the end of summer, and the end of the time they can easily sell convertibles.

I'm feeling a bit rushed. They wanted immediately agreement. I said that, while I can give up my car now, I needed 24 hours to think on it before committing to this.

I've heard 5-6% off GTS orders from other forum members, but 4% isn't bad, and it's local rather than a long distance deal. I wasn't hoping for more than 5% - 6% seems extraordinary.

Estimated total is $150,500 before taxes, less $75k trade in is $75,500.

I think I might be able to ask $85k for my car. It's higher mileage, and lacks desirable options like Sports Chrono, but it is a 4S Cab, and it does have a transferable CPO warranty. Taking sales tax benefit into account, the dealer's offer is about $80k. Plus the benefit of actually knowing the car is sold, minus the drawback of driving my wife's Cayman S for 3 months or so.

I could spec a 4S cab that would probably make me just as happy in actual enjoyment for about $149k sticker, $140k after Westwood's 6% offer (no corresponding offer from Norwell). $10k difference in price, but I expect the GTS will be worth more for longer - the 4S will probably depreciate about $50k in 3 years vs. $30k depreciation for the GTS, at a guess. I may be mistaken in that regard.

So. Thoughts?

 

KBB says trade-in value is around $69 ~ $76K.

If it were me I'd go with the Norwall option,....they are giving you pretty much top dollar for your trade due to you giving it to them right away. This is valid by the way, I often do these types of deals close to spring time as dealers want "summer" cars in stock.

4% is not bad, all depends on what area. I can tell you 3% is what it is around here or else the next person in line gets it. You might want to dangle 5% in front of them and see what happens. Otherwise the 4% with top dollar trade from a local dealer is pretty darn good IMO.

 

Agree^^^

 

What R_b wrote ---^

That, and don't agonize over $5k or $10k on the build YOU want. Don't compromise. If you do you'll just have that in the back of your mind: that the car is a compromise. It'll spoil it.

I really wish I'd done a 'pre-trade' when I inked the deal for my 991. I thought I could do a private party sale. Didn't happen: I was too damn busy.

Last, you've hit all the dealers in Beantown 'cept for Herb's. You didn't check with them?

 

According to the configurator, a 4S cab would be 140830$ if optioned according to your specs. That's a big difference, esp if you consider you'll prob be able to get a bigger discount on top of that, prob in the 5-7% range. Depends on how much you want the GTS I guess.
I think 75-80K is the minimum I'd take for your 2014. That's a very desirable color combo (minus the beige dash)

 

You're leaving out a lot of options that are standard on a GTS, like Sport Chrono and PSE. I know because I did configure a 4S to my specs, and it comes out to $148k, not $140k. If I go whole hog and get the X51/Sport Package bundle, it's $155k.

I know I can get a better discount on a 4S. As I said, Westwood is willing to go 6% on a 4S, even if Nashua will only do 3%. I mentioned that the price difference ends up being about $10k when you include both the reduced price and the higher discount.

I agree about the color, but the local dealers don't. I guess the local market is conservative in this regard, I got a lot of pushback for trading in a Ruby Red Panamera for my Amaranth Red 911 last year, and it was all about the color being "hard to sell."

 

No, they will just use any excuse they can to lowball you and make you think they are justified

 

$75-$80 trade in is about right. Here is wholesale (auction) values according to Manheim:

Historical Average

Past 30 Days
$81,300
15,720 mi
6 Months Ago
- -
- -
Last Year
$85,300
19,614 mi

 

Yeah, but all the dealers said this except Norwell. Which is where I sold it.

I'm inclined to think that the general tastes tend away from the colors I like, simply because there are far, far more white, gray, and black cars for sale than Sapphire Blue or Amaranth Red. Not that you can order Amaranth Red right now, the only reds on offer are Guards and Carmine, unless you go PTS.

 

^^^^This. I bought a 987 S from Herb's on Comm Ave back in the day and my last two 911s from Herb's in Burlington. They are typically well below the competition. I don't think it will hurt to give them a call.

 

A few things:

You might try Porsche of Warwick. Not very far away. Really good people.

I can't help but comment on your options. Look at the blue top. It is so complimentary to the sapphire blue. And no cost. Look at a different wheel option. I understand you don't want the centerlocks, but get an optional wheel that stands out for your GTS intead of the stock S wheels. They are boring and I wish I had upgraded wheels. Fortunately my winter wheels do stand out. Some things to think about as you finalize.

Lastly, don't forget to cash in on the Porsche class action suit and get some free sunglasses for your tan dashboard. Before you trade it in!

 

I did originally spec a blue top, but the salesman at Westwood talked me out of it. Said it would likely look bad with sapphire blue, because it wouldn't blend. Said it worked better with a darker blue like Night Blue.
The conifigurator only allows Carrera S or Turbo S wheels for a GTS.

 

Probably a little late in the game for you; but, I thought I'd throw the following in anyway. All IMO.

When you have a trade, you should know going into negotiations that the value of your car to the dealer is the auction value of your car. That's the starting point. How do you find what that value is?

Simple. You should begin the negotiating as a cash buyer - always. Represent yourself as a cash buyer, even if you know you'll eventually need to borrow money (lease, finance). Once you've negotiated to an agreed upon price as a cash buyer, then, and only then, bring up the trade. At that point, the dealer will tell you the auction value to him of your car. Once that's been determined, then bring up lease and/or finance. Keep in mind, he's going to make additional money when you lease or finance. Which means you should try to negotiate for a further discount.

As far as negotiating a price for an ordered car, are you aware Porsche 911's are not selling well these days? When you look at dealer websites you'll find many 911 lot cars with a discount for $4,500. It's called Conquest Bonus Cash rebate. It appears to apply to lot cars only; but, I mention it because it's a clear sign of slack sales. For you, it means it's a buyers market, to borrow a real estate cliche.

Nice trade you have there, by the way.
Good luck.

 

I am, in fact, a cash buyer. I made that clear to each dealer.

I have never had a dealer tell me an auction value, as you said they would. That does not appear to be the way it works. A couple of times I've had dealers mention the expected retail price they would set for my trade in, as a way of setting a ceiling on how much they could offer.

Westwood said, for example, that they'd set my present car at $85k because of the color and the mileage. Which is why they would offer "high 60's."

Norwell set a price on the new car before talking about my trade value. Weswood presented both together and suggested I might want to sell my car myself, as I successfully did when I bought cars from Westwood before. Nashua never made a trade offer.

 

Not for lack of intent, I just was going to talk to them last. Nashua had some cars I wanted to look at, and I've purchased cars from Westwood and Norwell before.

I did call them this morning, and they got back to me with "we don't have any GTS 4 cab allocations." Which is kind of an odd response, since neither did Westwood - they were just willing to trade an existing allocation with another dealer for one, and were pretty sure they could make said trade.

Anyway, I pulled the trigger with Norwell. They took a $2500 deposit, but we haven't signed any further paperwork yet. I'm not particularly looking forward to giving up my C4S to them, even though my wife's Cayman is a fine car in its own right.

Now the thing that's uppermost in my mind is worrying about whether I'll miss the PDK transmission on my current car. Yeah, craziness I know, but I made a lot of shifting mistakes during my test drives of manuals, which made me highly aware that the PDK never makes that kind of mistake. The worst you can do, really, when using a PDK in manual mode is shift in the wrong direction.

I don't know why I did - I drive my wife's manual Cayman S now and then, and I don't make errors with it.

Anyway, it had me thinking this morning that I should just back out of the idea entirely. It was the allure of getting an everything-I-want GTS 4 that kept me going. Not that my C4S is that far off the mark, aside from the transmission question it's minor stuff like missing Sport Chrono and beige leather instead of black.