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Before anyone laughs, let me just say that I'm still one of those guys who clings to when I could get an exhaust on my Mustang for $100. Onwards and upwards I guess.....
Apparently, on my new 911, the dealer told the previous owner that the car has an X Pipe installed. Yet he also said the mufflers are stock, which seems odd. I have to wait until I get the car shipped home before I can take pictures of the exhaust to see if you guys can verify what's what.
Meantime, I'm wondering if anyone has just welded in some reasonably priced mufflers and liked the result. An example I can use is on the Macan boards, a long time Porsche owner bypassed the $2+K exhaust systems to buy some universal Magnaflows and have a shop custom weld pipes to make it fit. The results sounded good, close enough to those uber expensive units.
The 991 has 3 mufflers, onr on eqch side, behind the wheels, and a center muffler just in front of the bumper cap. The center muffler is the one replaced by the X-pipe. So it could have both an x-pipe and the stock mufflers.
The 991 has 3 mufflers, onr on eqch side, behind the wheels, and a center muffler just in front of the bumper cap. The center muffler is the one replaced by the X-pipe. So it could have both an x-pipe and the stock mufflers.
Interesting! That's what he said they told him. Would that setup (X Pipe with stock mufflers) make it louder than all stock? And do you know what the assumed HP gains would be from that setup?
As for Fister, I'll look into it again. I did check into it already but didn't see a link for 991 mufflers, but I'll re check.
Those days are soooo far over. I used to be a JDP performance part dealer and i remember high quality catback systems for $499. When I moved to the Audi Scene that went up to $2500 for a catback. With the 991 you have some really good options. I broke down and bought the black tips for $550 which to me is so ridiculous i debated them for 8 months. Although most people can afford it, i still have a fundamental problem with $500 tips but still went with the purchase nontheless. Here is what im running
Fister Side Mufflers (Ceramic Black) Starting at $350 for non coated, but get the coating for $240 more
AWE X pipe: I paid $800 new but they are around $995.
Fabspeed Tips: $500 - $600
You can get a great sounding exhaust for $1500 - $1700
Interesting! That's what he said they told him. Would that setup (X Pipe with stock mufflers) make it louder than all stock? And do you know what the assumed HP gains would be from that setup?
As for Fister, I'll look into it again. I did check into it already but didn't see a link for 991 mufflers, but I'll re check.
HP gains on a catback are snake oil. This post will get some defensive people that like to justify the cost beyond just the improvement in sound but that's it.
The "data" via dyno sheets is sketchy at best. Nobody has done same car, same day, same temp comparisons.
The Fister mod is essentially gutting the side mufflers. Doing this and any reasonable exhaust shop installing an X pipe in the middle can be done for a few hundred. Fister is a "name Brand" although very reasonable and an X pipe is really hard to justify buying "name brand" at the end of the day.... Have it done custom for 300 and you'll have the same sound as some of the 5K systems.
HP gains on a catback are snake oil. This post will get some defensive people that like to justify the cost beyond just the improvement in sound but that's it.
The "data" via dyno sheets is sketchy at best. Nobody has done same car, same day, same temp comparisons.
The Fister mod is essentially gutting the side mufflers. Doing this and any reasonable exhaust shop installing an X pipe in the middle can be done for a few hundred. Fister is a "name Brand" although very reasonable and an X pipe is really hard to justify buying "name brand" at the end of the day.... Have it done custom for 300 and you'll have the same sound as some of the 5K systems.
Nice, I'll look into that. I'll eagerly await checking to see if my car does in fact have the X Pipe with stock side mufflers (as told to the previous owner). I looked up X Pipes for 911's, and they state 27-30 RWHP just from the X Pipe alone. As much as I'd LOVE for that to be true, it made me chuckle.
I have yet to compare my cars sound to a standard exhaust 991, but I'm assuming an X Pipe with stock side mufflers should indeed sound louder than all stock (I guess since it eliminates a 3rd muffler, that should go without saying).
HP gains on a catback are snake oil. This post will get some defensive people that like to justify the cost beyond just the improvement in sound but that's it.
The "data" via dyno sheets is sketchy at best. Nobody has done same car, same day, same temp comparisons.
The Fister mod is essentially gutting the side mufflers. Doing this and any reasonable exhaust shop installing an X pipe in the middle can be done for a few hundred. Fister is a "name Brand" although very reasonable and an X pipe is really hard to justify buying "name brand" at the end of the day.... Have it done custom for 300 and you'll have the same sound as some of the 5K systems.
Probably a subject discussed beyond reason already but I'll second this opinion.
I've never seen a dyno proven, real gain from a catback only system. You could definitely use some fancy materials to lose weight, or maybe manage heat better, which could/maybe help you go faster, but actual gains/if any in the exhaust department are always in the cat (+tune) which people have mixed feelings about.
I never understood removing mufflers on high quality cars. I was running a fully muffled, fully resonated Dinan exhaust on my 335i which sounded absolutely glorious. A buddy of mine is running the Fabspeed race headers + unmodified PSE + tune on his Cayman, sounds phenomenal, probably as loud as I'd ever want my car to be. I feel like removing mufflers is just a one way train to drone but hey what do I know.
Having said that, yeah if the ultimate goal is to remove mufflers, probably any competent shop could do that piping for a few hundo.
I so don't get this....you have a world class and expensive automobile and you want to "weld cheap mufflers" in it? Why? Do you also plan to run cheap oil in the car as well? Cheap gas, cheap tires?
Your 991 has three mufflers. Two sides and a center. The reason for all this is because the engine is in the rear and it gives precious little room to engineer a proper exhaust, so they had to come up with three cans to do it. It is a lot of work for the Porsche engineers and a challenge to design it. The enemy is not tone, but resonance in the cabin.
What the X-pipes do is eliminate the center muffler in order to make more noise and they are very good at doing that. But what they also do is upset that resonance, and the end result is drone at highway steady-state speeds. And that is drone that means you can't talk on the phone or enjoy your music. You will discover this as your car already has an X pipe installed. If your primary goal is just to make noise, then you are on the right path to do so. If you don't plan to take any trips in the car it won't really matter, either. Generally, all X-pipes are hacks.
Those in the know run tuner exhausts, which keep all three cans on the car and avoid the resonance issues, the cabin drone. There are a number of tuned cat-back exhausts you can choose from, none of which are cheap. Myself, I run a Tubi exhaust - great tone, no drone.
Try not to ruin your new Porsche, it's not a Mustang.
I so don't get this....you have a world class and expensive automobile and you want to "weld cheap mufflers" in it? Why? Do you also plan to run cheap oil in the car as well? Cheap gas, cheap tires?
Your 991 has three mufflers. Two sides and a center. The reason for all this is because the engine is in the rear and it gives precious little room to engineer a proper exhaust, so they had to come up with three cans to do it. It is a lot of work for the Porsche engineers and a challenge to design it. The enemy is not tone, but resonance in the cabin.
What the X-pipes do is eliminate the center muffler in order to make more noise and they are very good at doing that. But what they also do is upset that resonance, and the end result is drone at highway steady-state speeds. And that is drone that means you can't talk on the phone or enjoy your music. You will discover this as your car already has an X pipe installed. If your primary goal is just to make noise, then you are on the right path to do so. If you don't plan to take any trips in the car it won't really matter, either. Generally, all X-pipes are hacks.
Those in the know run tuner exhausts, which keep all three cans on the car and avoid the resonance issues, the cabin drone. There are a number of tuned cat-back exhausts you can choose from, none of which are cheap. Myself, I run a Tubi exhaust - great tone, no drone.
Try not to ruin your new Porsche, it's not a Mustang.
I get what you mean, but even if I owned a Bugatti, if I could get the same results from cheaper solutions, I'd always go that route, that's just me. But really, I'm just trying to get some info and intel here. Being new to the 911 game, I'm trying to gather as many "cheats" as I can, per se.
As for the X Pipe, I'm assuming not since it's a catback, but would it in any way risk smog test performance? My car is from out of state and I need to prep for a Cali smog check.
As for the X Pipe, I'm assuming not since it's a catback, but would it in any way risk smog test performance? My car is from out of state and I need to prep for a Cali smog check.
Correct, the X-pipe is nothing more than a noise-maker, won't affect performance or emissions at all.
I've never heard any drone or inside resonator issues with my awe x-pipe, ot even a hint of it. Power gains from unmuffled systems are indeed a reality. How much and where are dynamic. When I ran the fabspeed sidepipe system, that's when I really experience tremendous cockpit noise.
I trust AWE's Dyno numbers. Whether they are noticible or not is a different story. Naturally aspirated engines are difficult to find big power but if you want sound and something to not make you feel bad about the purchase, removing as much baffling is the way to go.
Power gains from unmuffled systems are indeed a reality.
...drinkin' the Kool-aide....
Do you have any data to support your claims? Is this an opinion thing or what? Has everyone got it wrong? Nascar, Imsa, nhra, every performance shop ever?
08-16-2017, 10:18 AM
Most "affordable" mufflers?
