swoobie

Great new tool - I'm a customer when it's time to replace

stealthpilot

Thanks for the tips. I like the two things you are thinking of regarding the app - I think those are the same two I was thinking!

Hey I have another question: since I put the car on the Porsche Charge-O-Mat the voltage has been rising but the tracker was saying 100% at 13.1v and also 100% at 14.1v. So how do you calibrate the scale?

Also what is low voltage where it will no longer start the car?

kouzman

Nice!!!

I just got mine today. Tomorrow we should have a decent day in NYC so I am installing the battery and the tracker. What a great concept I have to say!

Antigravity

This is a MASSIVELY IMPORTANT question, which Kouzman also brought up on the other end of the scale (low Voltage). So both you and Kouzman asked about the PERCENTAGE reading that we show on the Battery Tracker, which are good questions. So its important for me to explain this, because this Percentage is NOT meant to be perfectly accurate... but meant to give "Average Customer" and idea of the REAL-WORLD status of their Battery. IF you know batteries go by the Voltage Reading, not percentage and I will explain more below. .

As a Battery Company we have to split the difference for the Percentage numbers we give on the App so the "Average Customer" who does not know about, or understand how batteries really operate can get a "relatively" good Idea of where the State of Charge is at for their Battery. But this Percentage number we give is NOT fully accurate. It's not accurate INTENTIONALLY because a truly accurate number in the Percentage of Charge would cause big confusion for the 95% of Customers who bought the Battery Tracker. So we had to figure a way to get the Customer an generally accurate, but more importantly a real life understandable percentage of the charge their battery is sitting at.

That may sound odd... but here is how it works.

1- A Lead/Acid or Lithium Battery is only really at 100% of its State of Charge right after coming off a Charger or being charged by the Alternator in the Car. So that means a 100% State of Charge is actually roughly 14.4v if we average both Lead and Lithium. But a Lead or Lithium Battery will NEVER sit at that 14.4v.... they will ONLY get to that 14.4 volts when actively charged, then drift back down to their "resting" voltages after being taken off active Charging. So for Lithium its resting voltage is 13.2v and Lead is about 12.6v~12.8v.

2- So i f we were to make 14.4v as the 100% fully charged Battery Percentage on the App, then when our Lithium Battery goes back down to its normal "resting" voltage of 13.2v (where it will stay at for months if there is no parasitic drains on it), it would read as about 70-75% charged, That would make the average Customer who uses a Battery Tracker believe that the battery is never fully charged. We would then get tons of calls saying "why doesn't my battery ever go to 100% charged?". So in an effort to make sure a Customer understands their battery is actually charged and fine is to have the App inform them that the RESTING voltage is actually 100% charged., because that is the normal and perfectly functioning battery voltage for their Battery. We do not want people thinking that their battery is an a "low" state of charge when it is at the actual resting voltage of a perfectly healthy battery.

So we will get the calls and questions from people who know batteries saying... 13.2v is NOT 100% charged on a Lithium Battery.... and I will just say. Yes, we know that but it is the perfectly healthy "resting voltage that the lithium battery will sit at for 97% of its life, if it is charged. So we do this because we do not want to confuse the average customer. We don't want people stressing when the battery is doing exactly as it should.

2- So on the other end of the spectrum Kouzman wrote to me asking why his battery at 12.9v was reading LOW and 30% charged. And this goes to the fact that the Battery Tracker will try to make SURE the user is aware that at 12.9v your battery is low and needs a charge. And why we do that is because the Battery Tracker will not only be used with OUR PRODUCTS.... but it will also be used many other Brands of Lithium Batteries.... and most of those DON"T have the PROTECTIONS and Low Voltage Cut-off like ours do. So when that voltage starts to drop below 13.1v on the Battery Tracker it going to start to say your getting LOW on charge. And this is to assist those average Customers to make sure they get that battery on a Charger. This will help them make sure they are keeping their un-protected Lithium Battery from getting over-discharged.

We also had to realize that thousands of our Customers, and Customers who use other Brands of Lithium Batteries for their Cars are often using our very SMALL Batteries... I'm talking 7 Amp Hours to 15 Amp Hour Batteries in some Street and Racing vehicles. So those guys are operating on a slimmer margin of error. Meaning even if the Battery Tracker says 13.2v and all is good... leaving a couple fans on can take that tiny battery into over-discharge very fast because it does not have the 30Ah to 40Ah of larger Lithium Battery. So we have to WARN them and make them aware that 12.9v means to get that battery on a charger NOW... But in reality our 40 Amp Hour Battery would still EASILY start ANY PORSCHE even at 12.5v . But regardless our Battery tracker will warn you of low voltage even if you have overhead because you have a 40ah battery.... and that is because the guy with the 15Ah battery will NOT have that overhead of starting power since they went with a Small Battery. So in effect we have to warn those guys too. So there are alot of variables to consider here. Hope that makes sense.

So in the end, the Battery Tracker percentage is not super accurate to all the circumstances we have to consider such as how small the battery is, what is the actual state of charge, and how many Amp Hours a battery has..... It more of a broad stroke reading for the average user. And the knowledgeable battery person can just read the voltage and understand the accurate data.

Last to answer your question.... anything above 13.2v will be reading 100%... because that just means anything above resting and all is good. And we thought about ways to calibrate the percentages... but it really couldn't apply accurately to all the considerations we thought of, and I can't program in complex equations and battery size considerations in a product like this it would cost way to much. Its meant as a tool for the general public to get voltage information without using a Multi-meter in an efficient way that would help them in not having dead battery emergencies and tracking some data that could assist them in reviewing their battery health. It is not meant to be a higher-end diagnostic tool though it has helped me massively in time savings for the testing I am doing, and seeing what the batteries are doing. Now I just walk by any of the vehicles, pull them up and check the voltages check the history and can move onto the next vehicle for my testing. Others will find other uses.

obcabahug

Hi Scott or Chad. I got my anti-gravity H6 40Amh battery from The California festival of speed yesterday thru Chad. Read my 2019 GT2RS manual that says I should "reinitialize my car after installing the new battery". Is this true? Do I have to take it to the dealer or porsche shop to install the new battery and have them reinitialize the car after?

Omar

stealthpilot

The approach you have taken makes a ton of sense. Given the percentage then has varying significance depending on what battery you have, would it be better if you could set the power voltage alarm in the settings from being a percentage scale to being a voltage scale? i.e. you can set the alarm at 11.5v?

Also do you know at what level my AGM battery wouldn't be able to start my car? According to the battery tracker my cranking voltage is 10.75v and the full resting voltage of my battery seems to be 12.79v.

Antigravity

In the past 2 years many European Cars have a computer system that requires a battery to be registered, and/or Coded to the Vehicle. For example you can code them to an AGM Battery or Flooded Lead/Acid or Lithium. This has mainly been in BMW (for many years) ,Audi, and the others, but Porsche has not had the same exact system in them. BMWs even require the Registration # off the battery itself.

Porsche has the PIWIS which we have found does not need to be re-set to use our Battery, it can be used in either Lithium Mode OR AGM Mode. But being that I have never heard the specific term "re-initialize the Car after a battery installation" in reference to any Porsche in the past I do not want to mis-lead you. I would rather play it safe than sorry. And while a DC 13.2v battery cannot harm a 12v system and is operating within the same voltage relatively as a Lead/Acid battery, I do not want to tell you something about a GT2 that I am not intimately aware of. So lets play it safe and if you would ask your Porsche Tech about it. In the mean time I will ask my Porsche tech about it and see if they get back to me on this. I had thought there were already a few GT2s using our Battery but we do not track what cars are using the battery when they buy them...So I don't have a specific guy I can go to and ask what "re-initialize" means. The fact is it might be the same thing they have been saying for years.. but I never read that myself. Usually on a battery change they make sure they select the correct setting in PIWIS, and maybe that is what they are saying in your Manual. I'll try to get back to you. But can you email me scott@antigravitybatteries.com. This way we will bring it up in the GT2 forum once we clarify what is up.

Last, any issue, or your don't want it, don't worry we'll take it back no issues at all. I just want to make sure this isn't some new thing Porsche is requiring.... this might be the same thing as always of just checking PIWIS.

Antigravity

1- Potentially better to set at a voltage... will have to consider that.

2- For any car the point at which is will still start is hard to gauge.. but usually IF the battery has enough amp hours and is in good health it could pull off starts in the low 12s (resting) , with drops into the 8v range on the actual start attempt that draws the heavy current.... but keep in mind if it is a much smaller Ah battery it may not get a Start at resting 12s because it doesn't have as much capacity... For example the 15Ah battery compared to a 24Ah or 40Ah.

Your cranking voltage being at 10.75 on your batteries is the cpaturing lowest point of Voltage DROP during the start attempt... that's actually pretty high voltage and good, but this is another data point that is only accurate to a certain degree depending on the Ah Capacity of the battery, health, and the Chemical make up of the battery. For example I have the 24Ah testing in the GT3... it can drop into the 9.4 range on the start... but its still starting the car great. It is just dropping more because it has a lower capacity, its cold, and it might be the first start attempt after weeks of sitting, but you wouldn't really notice it in the speed of turn over of the motor. That lower voltage does not mean its bad or weak, it just its lower capacity, which is not as much compared to the 40Ah model which has a ton of over-head on a crank attempt compared to a 24Ah model.

So in the end its a lot of variables...and for a knowledgeable person who is really using the Battery Tracker as a functional tool will have to weigh against what they are actually tracking.... such as a 24Ah Lithium compared to a 40Ah Ltihium, or even a regular 70Ah Lead/Acid.

Antigravity

I just heard back from my Porsche Tech.... Posted what he wrote below...seems to be no change in anything from the 991.... so for me that is good and he looked it up in the Manual. For you please take the steps you feel necessary to feel comfortable.

Polivoks

I don't know why the Micro-Start Sport couldn't start my 991.2 Turbo. I purchased it through a vendor on Amazon and returned it there. The vendor is in my original emails to your company if you want to get the unit from them to test.

I purchased a Micro-Start XP10 (before your replies on the forum or I might have reconsidered tbh) and it started the car up with no problems. It didn't even drop the battery from full charge on the charge indicator and I didn't need to use the boost mode. Compared to the Sport it is larger and more expensive but it still easily fits behind the seats. I'd much rather have extra capacity than not enough.

I also already installed the H6 40Ah battery from you. I'll follow up soon with my thoughts.

Polivoks

I received my 40Ah Antigravity H6/Group-48 Car Battery today. Unlike kouzman's battery pics in the original post, my battery came without any stickers or labels on it whatsoever. It is just black plastic. There is no serial number I can see. The box was missing stickers as well but had 40Ah checked on it. Looks like someone forgot to apply stickers before they boxed it. I ordered a lithium charger as well but it was missing from the order. Based on Antigravity's responses in the thread, I'm sure they'll make it right. I did email them but it was within a couple hours of the end of their day so I wasn't expecting a reply until tomorrow.

I forgot to weigh the battery before I installed it so I can't provide those numbers unfortunately.

Battery install was easy, thanks to this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1041...ement-diy.html

Performance-wise everything is good so far. Car started up super quick and I noticed the voltage was ~14.5 vs the 15.2 it was with the bad battery. Auto stop-start started working again within maybe 5 minutes of driving the car. This was a pleasant surprise because I thought it might take longer or require some battery re-learn or programming procedure based on forum posts I read. Luckily this was not the case. I still plan on picking up a device to put in the new capacity and type soon though.

Unfortunately I don't have any way to test the Re-Start functionality to know if it keeps enough power in reserve to start the car, even in adverse weather conditions, but there's always next winter.

obcabahug

I finally installed my H6 40Ah anti-gravity lithium battery on my 2019 GT2rs. Easy enough to install following the forum instructions. No reprograming or codes needed.So far so good with no issues. In my business " no news is good news" so won't be commenting unless there are issues.

Thank you Scott and or Chad for answering my concerns and standing behind your product!

stealthpilot

QC process a bit troubling there but the battery performance sounds great! The 14.5 voltage (assuming you are referring to the indicator in the car after you start the ignition) indicates the charging voltage from the car to the battery. This means your car thinks it is charging an old battery. If you have the dealer or a Porsche mechanic reset the battery in PIWIS it will probably switch to a lower voltage. One of my driving buddies did this recently and it said 15v before and then 12.8v afterwards.

Polivoks

Yes, it was 14.5 on the car right after I started it up. Since they didn't include the charger in my order, I wasn't sure if maybe the battery didn't come charged 100% and that was why. It did vary when driving and even drop into the high 12s when auto stop-start was active.

In the battery change thread I linked someone mentioned the Autel MD808P OBDII tool can change the battery type/size so I have one of those coming today to try.

Antigravity

That's our fault and I will own that it actually happened on a local order too, but we swapped out the local guy. All I can say is we have been back-ordered and shipping as fast as possible but we shouldn't be missing getting the stickers on the freaking products. But that was about 5 days ago when the local guy brought it up so you must have gotten one too. We rechecked stock since his complaint so I can only assume it shipped on the 25th when the other guy picked up the other unstickered one.

I don't want you without the stickers because there is stickers on the Wireless Remotes also that need to be there. So can you please email me.... NOT the general mailbox... so I can get staff sending another battery out and having the other one shipped back to us. We need it to be as intended. So I would like to get that swapped out for you. We'll send you a return receipt and send out another battery that is correctly done so you won't not have a battery... then you send the non-stickered on back to us. My email is Scott@antigravitybatteries.com