The true value of the R
05-22-2017 | 12:57 PM
#136
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: CHI / ATL
These are all great cars. The R is special by virtue of it's limited numbers and what it is.
.2GT3 is a great car and special by virtue of what it is. The latest and greatest GT3 and while produced in more numbers is still "limited" production when compared to most peberformance cars.
That the .2GT3 has a "better" engine based on what Chris Harris said, I am not sure what he was referring to but likely the fact it revs higher and has a slightly improved torque curve I guess.
The R and .1RS have the same engine and are great lumps with just a lower rev limit. A testament to the prowess of the .1RS with an R lump is evidenced by the fact Chris Harris just picked it over the new AMG GTR in a 3 way comparison with the BMW GT4 also. Per Chris Harris the .1RS is still "a daddy" even 2 years after launch. Pretty impressive.
.2GT3 is a great car and special by virtue of what it is. The latest and greatest GT3 and while produced in more numbers is still "limited" production when compared to most peberformance cars.
That the .2GT3 has a "better" engine based on what Chris Harris said, I am not sure what he was referring to but likely the fact it revs higher and has a slightly improved torque curve I guess.
The R and .1RS have the same engine and are great lumps with just a lower rev limit. A testament to the prowess of the .1RS with an R lump is evidenced by the fact Chris Harris just picked it over the new AMG GTR in a 3 way comparison with the BMW GT4 also. Per Chris Harris the .1RS is still "a daddy" even 2 years after launch. Pretty impressive.
There are numerous enhancements made:
New valve gear
New crankshaft
New piston rings
Lower internal oil pressure
As for the marketing-driven claims (endlessly parroted by credulous journalists) about the engine being "from the Cup Car," that's obviously not congruent with reality, but it's pretty close, and closer than the 991.1 engines were.
I know that you have heartburn over the RS potentially being usurped by the lesser GT3, but the GT3 is absolutely superior to the RS with respect to the engine. As for whether its more desirable overall ... depends on a lot of things. Porsche segments the market effectively, and I don't even view the GT3 and RS as competitors for my dollars.
05-22-2017 | 03:18 PM
#137
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Vancouver, BC
The engine in the .2 GT3 is unambiguously superior to the E/F/G engines that populated, variously, the 991.1 GT3 / RS / R.
There are numerous enhancements made:
New valve gear
New crankshaft
New piston rings
Lower internal oil pressure
As for the marketing-driven claims (endlessly parroted by credulous journalists) about the engine being "from the Cup Car," that's obviously not congruent with reality, but it's pretty close, and closer than the 991.1 engines were.
I know that you have heartburn over the RS potentially being usurped by the lesser GT3, but the GT3 is absolutely superior to the RS with respect to the engine. As for whether its more desirable overall ... depends on a lot of things. Porsche segments the market effectively, and I don't even view the GT3 and RS as competitors for my dollars.
There are numerous enhancements made:
New valve gear
New crankshaft
New piston rings
Lower internal oil pressure
As for the marketing-driven claims (endlessly parroted by credulous journalists) about the engine being "from the Cup Car," that's obviously not congruent with reality, but it's pretty close, and closer than the 991.1 engines were.
I know that you have heartburn over the RS potentially being usurped by the lesser GT3, but the GT3 is absolutely superior to the RS with respect to the engine. As for whether its more desirable overall ... depends on a lot of things. Porsche segments the market effectively, and I don't even view the GT3 and RS as competitors for my dollars.
The Gen 1, Gen 1.5 flat 6 couldn't pass the racing test. That's why the Gen 2 came along and raced all of last year in the GT3R. Porsche slapped that engine into the .2 Cup car and a further development of that engine, mostly making a race motor work on the street, the Gen 2.5 engine is now in the .2 GT3.
So yeah, the .2 GT3 engine is from the .2 Cup car, and the GT3R race car.
05-22-2017 | 03:41 PM
#138
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 202
From: CHI / ATL
Closer than what you think.
The Gen 1, Gen 1.5 flat 6 couldn't pass the racing test. That's why the Gen 2 came along and raced all of last year in the GT3R. Porsche slapped that engine into the .2 Cup car and a further development of that engine, mostly making a race motor work on the street, the Gen 2.5 engine is now in the .2 GT3.
So yeah, the .2 GT3 engine is from the .2 Cup car, and the GT3R race car.
The Gen 1, Gen 1.5 flat 6 couldn't pass the racing test. That's why the Gen 2 came along and raced all of last year in the GT3R. Porsche slapped that engine into the .2 Cup car and a further development of that engine, mostly making a race motor work on the street, the Gen 2.5 engine is now in the .2 GT3.
So yeah, the .2 GT3 engine is from the .2 Cup car, and the GT3R race car.
QED
05-22-2017 | 03:57 PM
#139
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From: Vancouver, BC
05-22-2017 | 05:24 PM
#140
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: CHI / ATL
Porsche marketing is representing the engine in the .2 GT3 as if it's essentially identical to the Cup race motor in terms of mechanical specification, tune, etc.
That isn't the case, although it IS the case that it's closer than the .1 engine - we can surely agree on that point.
05-22-2017 | 05:36 PM
#141
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 8
From: Cleveland
Well, yeah! LOL
Porsche marketing is representing the engine in the .2 GT3 as if it's essentially identical to the Cup race motor in terms of mechanical specification, tune, etc.
That isn't the case, although it IS the case that it's closer than the .1 engine - we can surely agree on that point.
Porsche marketing is representing the engine in the .2 GT3 as if it's essentially identical to the Cup race motor in terms of mechanical specification, tune, etc.
That isn't the case, although it IS the case that it's closer than the .1 engine - we can surely agree on that point.
05-22-2017 | 06:43 PM
#142
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 202
From: CHI / ATL
What's that? I can't hear you? (Drove 672 miles yesterday in my GT3 which lacks cats or a center muffler)
To my ears:
991.2 Cup sounds about like 991.1 Cup (heard in person at Sebring); pretty quiet
991 GT3 R sounds pretty good, if a little quiet
991 RSR (Mezger) is my favorite flat 6 sound, period
991 RSR (Mid-Engine 9A1) has big mufflers and sounds pretty bad
To my ears:
991.2 Cup sounds about like 991.1 Cup (heard in person at Sebring); pretty quiet
991 GT3 R sounds pretty good, if a little quiet
991 RSR (Mezger) is my favorite flat 6 sound, period
991 RSR (Mid-Engine 9A1) has big mufflers and sounds pretty bad
05-22-2017 | 08:09 PM
#144
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Vancouver, BC
Well, yeah! LOL
Porsche marketing is representing the engine in the .2 GT3 as if it's essentially identical to the Cup race motor in terms of mechanical specification, tune, etc.
That isn't the case, although it IS the case that it's closer than the .1 engine - we can surely agree on that point.
Porsche marketing is representing the engine in the .2 GT3 as if it's essentially identical to the Cup race motor in terms of mechanical specification, tune, etc.
That isn't the case, although it IS the case that it's closer than the .1 engine - we can surely agree on that point.
Well no one knocks the megzer engines in the 997s cause they are not the 'exact' race engines.
Race-derived is always the term, that indicates the lineage.
The Gen 2.5 engines are proper race-derived engines, unlike the Gen 1, and Gen 1.5 in the old GT3, GT3RS and the 911R.
Btw, the Cup cars you heard in Sebring must have had the quiet muffler. They have 2 kinds, a normal one and a quiet ones for tracks that have sound regulations.
The normal ones sounded glorious!
05-22-2017 | 08:31 PM
#145
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 202
From: CHI / ATL
Well no one knocks the megzer engines in the 997s cause they are not the 'exact' race engines.
Race-derived is always the term, that indicates the lineage.
The Gen 2.5 engines are proper race-derived engines, unlike the Gen 1, and Gen 1.5 in the old GT3, GT3RS and the 911R.
Btw, the Cup cars you heard in Sebring must have had the quiet muffler. They have 2 kinds, a normal one and a quiet ones for tracks that have sound regulations.
The normal ones sounded glorious!
Race-derived is always the term, that indicates the lineage.
The Gen 2.5 engines are proper race-derived engines, unlike the Gen 1, and Gen 1.5 in the old GT3, GT3RS and the 911R.
Btw, the Cup cars you heard in Sebring must have had the quiet muffler. They have 2 kinds, a normal one and a quiet ones for tracks that have sound regulations.
The normal ones sounded glorious!
Interestingly the WEC spec 991 Mezger RSR has a different exhaust vs the IMSA spec car - considerably quieter. The Mezger lives on in the GTE Am car in WEC.
06-11-2017 | 08:10 PM
#147
Platinum Dealership
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From: Exit Row seats
Originally Posted by Guest89
I don't know what muffler is on the new cups - CJ? - but they sound almost exactly like the pre-facelift cups.
Interestingly the WEC spec 991 Mezger RSR has a different exhaust vs the IMSA spec car - considerably quieter. The Mezger lives on in the GTE Am car in WEC.
Interestingly the WEC spec 991 Mezger RSR has a different exhaust vs the IMSA spec car - considerably quieter. The Mezger lives on in the GTE Am car in WEC.
The GTE/GTLM car develops and tests between races. They have run various configs: no canards/canards, new muffler, no muffler, side exhaust, center exhaust...
06-11-2017 | 09:49 PM
#148
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,984
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From: East Amherst, NY
Closer than what you think.
The Gen 1, Gen 1.5 flat 6 couldn't pass the racing test. That's why the Gen 2 came along and raced all of last year in the GT3R. Porsche slapped that engine into the .2 Cup car and a further development of that engine, mostly making a race motor work on the street, the Gen 2.5 engine is now in the .2 GT3.
So yeah, the .2 GT3 engine is from the .2 Cup car, and the GT3R race car.
The Gen 1, Gen 1.5 flat 6 couldn't pass the racing test. That's why the Gen 2 came along and raced all of last year in the GT3R. Porsche slapped that engine into the .2 Cup car and a further development of that engine, mostly making a race motor work on the street, the Gen 2.5 engine is now in the .2 GT3.
So yeah, the .2 GT3 engine is from the .2 Cup car, and the GT3R race car.
so, do I have this straight....
what cars had the Gen 1? (GT3.1 2014 E?)
what cars had the Gen 1.5 (GT3.1 2015/16 F,G ?)
what cars had the Gen 2 (RS and R?)
