Comparing 991.2 GT3 with prior R/RS models shows .2 superior?
05-05-2017, 11:30 PM
#241
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by fun2k
Here's a simple solution. You walk into a showroom and find the following cars for sale.
1.997.2 4.0 2011 $500,000 used
2.997.2 RS 2011 $200,000 used
3.991.1 gt3 2015 $110,000 used
4.991.1 gt3 RS 2016 $220,000 new
5.991.1 gt3 R 2016 $500,000 new
5.991.2 gt3 P 2017 $165,000 new
6.991.2 gt3 M 2017 $165,000 new
7.carrera gt 2006 $800,000 used
8.ferrari 458 2014 $180,000 used
9.ferrari 488 2016 $220,000 used
10.mac 675 LT 2016 $500,000 new
Which car would you buy with your hard earned money at market price?
I think the 991.1 gt3 is still a bargain for the performance you get for your money and for manual purists the new gt3 is currently the best option imho.
Infact i think the gt3 4.0 the 997.2 rs ,991 rs,r ,carrera gt are all overpriced but that's just me. I thought the 4.0 was overpriced at msrp in 2011 when i was offered one but look where it is now.
Time can do that to your perception, in 2011 i didn't think there was such a big gap between the 4.0 and 997.2 gt3 to justify an upgrade. Last few years i was literally dreaming about driving a 4.0 but now after the introduction of the new gt3 and watching the reviews for the manual version especially, i no longer desire to own a 997.2 gt3 rs 4.0 anymore.
So YES to me the .2 in manual form is superior to all previous gt3s. In pdk form the 991 RS is more desirable(not necessarily better).
1.997.2 4.0 2011 $500,000 used
2.997.2 RS 2011 $200,000 used
3.991.1 gt3 2015 $110,000 used
4.991.1 gt3 RS 2016 $220,000 new
5.991.1 gt3 R 2016 $500,000 new
5.991.2 gt3 P 2017 $165,000 new
6.991.2 gt3 M 2017 $165,000 new
7.carrera gt 2006 $800,000 used
8.ferrari 458 2014 $180,000 used
9.ferrari 488 2016 $220,000 used
10.mac 675 LT 2016 $500,000 new
Which car would you buy with your hard earned money at market price?
I think the 991.1 gt3 is still a bargain for the performance you get for your money and for manual purists the new gt3 is currently the best option imho.
Infact i think the gt3 4.0 the 997.2 rs ,991 rs,r ,carrera gt are all overpriced but that's just me. I thought the 4.0 was overpriced at msrp in 2011 when i was offered one but look where it is now.
Time can do that to your perception, in 2011 i didn't think there was such a big gap between the 4.0 and 997.2 gt3 to justify an upgrade. Last few years i was literally dreaming about driving a 4.0 but now after the introduction of the new gt3 and watching the reviews for the manual version especially, i no longer desire to own a 997.2 gt3 rs 4.0 anymore.
So YES to me the .2 in manual form is superior to all previous gt3s. In pdk form the 991 RS is more desirable(not necessarily better).
Helpful advice: don't ever ever drive one.
Now u can send me the 300k I just saved u.
05-05-2017, 11:59 PM
#242
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by gago1101
PS: where is Neanicu, need help.
They couldn't believe their eyes,ears and sales numbers when they saw how much demand actually exists for a manual GT car! They couldn't believe a parts bin car like the GT4 won all the awards possible ahead of cars that cost 4 times more! " What are we doing wrong?! " they said. And the answer came : " Nothing,but we are not doing enough! " They saw the empty space in the market(no such car from competitors like Mac,Ferrari,Lambo etc) and grasped it!
I know one thing for sure : I can guarantee 100% that the new GT3 with a manual transmission will be absolutely EPIC! That I have no doubt!
The demand for a manual transmission car is Global. Don't get fooled by pointless chatter,which describes NA as the sole driving force of the manual transmission demand. Of course no one will be able to prove it since no one has the numbers outside Porsche. The demand is there because the majority of people buying these cars buy them for the enjoyment of taming the beast on the road and track and they want to be as involved as humanly possible in the process of driving,so having a manual transmission is a big part of that!
Enjoy your cars gents...and gals!
05-06-2017, 12:14 AM
#243
Rennlist Member
#1-manual + NA engine make for an emotional sports car experience
#2-DCT + turbo engine make for clinical rocketship experience
PDK-S and 9K NA engine much better than option #2, not quite as good as option #1, but still damn good for those of us with medical issues preventing us from driving a manual.
#2-DCT + turbo engine make for clinical rocketship experience
PDK-S and 9K NA engine much better than option #2, not quite as good as option #1, but still damn good for those of us with medical issues preventing us from driving a manual.
05-06-2017, 12:14 AM
#244
Rennlist Member
05-06-2017, 12:17 AM
#245
US is the biggest market for the MT gt3. MT is special in the US. Most Europeans grew up only driving MT. (Cheaper) and former Automatics was less fuel efficient.
I would choose a MT in the 991.2gt3! I'm still 2-3sec slower than the really fast drivers around a 2min track. Might as well be 4-5 and have more fun doing it.
And then have more fun on the road as well.
I would choose a MT in the 991.2gt3! I'm still 2-3sec slower than the really fast drivers around a 2min track. Might as well be 4-5 and have more fun doing it.
And then have more fun on the road as well.
05-06-2017, 12:32 AM
#246
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by 997rs4.0
US is the biggest market for the MT gt3. MT is special in the US. Most Europeans grew up only driving MT. (Cheaper) and former Automatics was less fuel efficient.
But I can tell you the above is a huge misconception IMO. I don't disagree that NA is the biggest market for a manual transmission,but I simply can't agree Europeans prefer pdk because they're used/tired with/of manuals. Not in the segment this car is selling in at least. It's a very small market IMO and the majority of buyers will choose pdk,but that's Global. Also with the introduction of pdk,the market has expanded beyond heavy track users. Many buy these cars because they are closer to the feel Porsche used to offer in the past in their regular 911s,so although they might take it to the track every once in a while,the majority of usage this car will see will be on the street.
05-06-2017, 12:44 AM
#247
Rennlist Member
So true, PDK is fast on the track, yes. Why does it matter though if I'm slow anyway. Its not a real race, and someone will always be faster. For me, taking the car to the track is about having fun. For me, manual = fun.
05-06-2017, 02:37 AM
#248
Burning Brakes
US is the biggest market for the MT gt3. MT is special in the US. Most Europeans grew up only driving MT. (Cheaper) and former Automatics was less fuel efficient.
I would choose a MT in the 991.2gt3! I'm still 2-3sec slower than the really fast drivers around a 2min track. Might as well be 4-5 and have more fun doing it.
And then have more fun on the road as well.
I would choose a MT in the 991.2gt3! I'm still 2-3sec slower than the really fast drivers around a 2min track. Might as well be 4-5 and have more fun doing it.
And then have more fun on the road as well.
Chances are you will also at some point down shift and over rev, possibly hurt your motor, resell value will hurt too with DME report, and will have to eventually change out your clutch plate which is not under warranty, but hey if that is what you are into, then by all means enjoy.
05-06-2017, 03:29 AM
#249
I love the idea of a MT GT3 and probably will get one myself, but I think generally people are ignoring what an incredible transmission the PDK-S really is and how it lets you focus on perfecting how you drive on track. I've never felt it's clinical, but rather just brutally efficient (I've raced a converted E46 CSL with SMG, which was the exact opposite, so have an appreciation for what works and what doesn't). It also lets you adopt techniques, like trail braking and left foot braking, which are more more difficult the apply with a MT. Ok, that makes the MT more of a challenge if you do master all this, but once you start appreciating how well the PDK works the MT almost feels a bit clumsy on track and becomes the Achilles heel of the whole process. The fact that the PDK won't let you buzz the engine is also a great benefit which you won't fully appreciate until you've had to fork out for a new engine.
05-06-2017, 06:58 AM
#250
The car guys I knew could not understand why I wanted something slower and less efficient, and this matched prevailing public perception. And remember- the SMG gearbox option on the M3 was complete crap compared to a PDK.
Many of the English "get" the whole manual thing, but in my experience many of those on the continent and particularly Germans really do not. Not only are manuals the norm rather than the exception, but the autobahn lets you use every ounce of a car's performance on a daily basis. Buying a car for performance while intentionally leaving some on the table is not something they easily get their heads around.
Thus while I'm sure there will be vocal exceptions I expect Germany to skew massively towards PDK, and I think the marketing guys will be gob-smacked when they see the true take-rate for the manual GT3 in the US. So far we've had low volume, "special" cars like the GT4 and R that sold well but didn't have an option, so the issue is far from settled in their minds.
05-06-2017, 08:07 AM
#251
Give me a 997.1 RS with a 3.9 or 4.0 motor build and some suspension. Maybe even one that's taken a hit at some point so I never need to worry about appreciation. That can be a near if not equal experience to the 4.0, but... I can drive the crap out of it and therefore get much more from it. Porsche should be first and foremost drivers cars, and appreciation is their nemesis: it fundamentally ruins that.
Unfortunately something new's keeping me up at night these days- the manual 991.2 GT3. Luckily I was smart enough to get my deposit down a couple years ago... as long as this thing doesn't appreciate like crazy (for the love of God please keep making normally aspirated manuals) I think I'll be happy...
Last edited by Petevb; 05-06-2017 at 11:36 AM.
05-06-2017, 08:26 AM
#252
Rennlist Member
Many of the English "get" the whole manual thing, but in my experience many of those on the continent and particularly Germans really do not. Not only are manuals the norm rather than the exception, but the autobahn lets you use every ounce of a car's performance on a daily basis. Buying a car for performance while intentionally leaving some on the table is not something they easily get their heads around.
05-06-2017, 10:28 AM
#253
05-06-2017, 10:31 AM
#254
05-06-2017, 10:41 AM
#255
Originally Posted by GT345
If you are 2-3 seconds slower with pdk, you will be much slower then just 4 or 5 seconds with MT.
Chances are you will also at some point down shift and over rev, possibly hurt your motor, resell value will hurt too with DME report, and will have to eventually change out your clutch plate which is not under warranty, but hey if that is what you are into, then by all means enjoy.
Chances are you will also at some point down shift and over rev, possibly hurt your motor, resell value will hurt too with DME report, and will have to eventually change out your clutch plate which is not under warranty, but hey if that is what you are into, then by all means enjoy.
I track a 996gt3 and is 2-3 sec slower than the fast drivers.
Have yet to miss shift and over rev but like you said always a chance it will happen down the road.
My point was, MT adds to the excitement of track driving and if you're not looking for that last second it could be a good option.