ceramic brakes
02-02-2017, 02:19 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Upset that I haven't followed this company in the past. I would guess that replacements make up a sliver of their $4.1B trailing-twelve revenue. Will start to cover this company and report any interesting findings.
02-02-2017, 02:23 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
More stopping power?
Anecdotal, I admit, but my track instructors were screaming for me to brake earlier at the end of the straightaway since they're used to the steel rotors on their RS's. They both were surprised when we slowed down too early for the turn after I listened to them. Maybe I'm just a slower driver than they are... well, I AM a slower driver. lol
Anecdotal, I admit, but my track instructors were screaming for me to brake earlier at the end of the straightaway since they're used to the steel rotors on their RS's. They both were surprised when we slowed down too early for the turn after I listened to them. Maybe I'm just a slower driver than they are... well, I AM a slower driver. lol
Actually, I think the issue is a bit more complicated than this. The calipers for PCCB are machined differently and need to be used with the huge 410mm front rotors. Yes, you can substitute for iron ones but they need to be much heavier than the stock 380mm ones.
With the Red standard calipers, you can add spacers to use a larger rotor or choose a variety of aftermarket iron 2-piece or carbon ceramic ones from Surface Transforms which are more highly rated than PCCB by some, but you cannot use smaller than 410mm rotors on the PCCB yellow calipers. So in some senses, the Red ones are the more flexible choice.
And the standard 380mm iron rotors with the Brembo (Race Technologies) RE-10 pads are pretty hard to fault!
With the Red standard calipers, you can add spacers to use a larger rotor or choose a variety of aftermarket iron 2-piece or carbon ceramic ones from Surface Transforms which are more highly rated than PCCB by some, but you cannot use smaller than 410mm rotors on the PCCB yellow calipers. So in some senses, the Red ones are the more flexible choice.
And the standard 380mm iron rotors with the Brembo (Race Technologies) RE-10 pads are pretty hard to fault!
02-02-2017, 03:29 PM
#33
No more stopping power. Holding all else constant (tires, surface conditions, driver etc.) both will have the same ability to stop the car - both can go all the way to lock up unless there is fade. Ceramics against stock steel setup will resist fade better but you can solve that on steels with better pads like the RE-10 mentioned above. Only other appreciable difference is weight, which is not insignificant rotational / unsprung weight. There is also the matter of modulation - I have found I can modulate the steels better than PCCB but that is with only a couple of sessions with the ceramics.
Good info here, thanks.
Good info here, thanks.
02-02-2017, 03:55 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
^ Certainly personal to each driver, perhaps it was the the fact that the car I drove was relatively new (<2,000km). Initial bite, pedal effort, modulation, all are personal preference. I have never owned a car with ceramics so def feel the most comfortable with steels. Like you, I don't care for the yellow either but wouldn't keep me from adding them.
02-02-2017, 04:33 PM
#35
Got it - but, do you "feel" the less weight and the modern tech?
I understand this subject has been discussed from so many different angles with the conclusion that you get PCCB for any/all of the reasons below:
1. looks - you want yellow calipers
2. less brake dust
3. higher resale OR easier to sell later
4. longer life which results in less expensive maintenance (which could be offset if you have to replace the rotors for the many reasons that could cause the rotors to be replaced)
5. just want the best brakes that Porsche offers
I understand this subject has been discussed from so many different angles with the conclusion that you get PCCB for any/all of the reasons below:
1. looks - you want yellow calipers
2. less brake dust
3. higher resale OR easier to sell later
4. longer life which results in less expensive maintenance (which could be offset if you have to replace the rotors for the many reasons that could cause the rotors to be replaced)
5. just want the best brakes that Porsche offers
02-02-2017, 04:42 PM
#36
Race Director
Got it - but, do you "feel" the less weight and the modern tech?
I understand this subject has been discussed from so many different angles with the conclusion that you get PCCB for:
1. looks - you want yellow calipers
2. less brake dust
3. higher resale OR easier to sell later
4. longer life which results in less expensive maintenance (which could be offset if you have to replace the rotors for the many reasons that could cause the rotors to be replaced)
I understand this subject has been discussed from so many different angles with the conclusion that you get PCCB for:
1. looks - you want yellow calipers
2. less brake dust
3. higher resale OR easier to sell later
4. longer life which results in less expensive maintenance (which could be offset if you have to replace the rotors for the many reasons that could cause the rotors to be replaced)
02-02-2017, 07:47 PM
#37
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Without doubt the best reason for going PCCB!!
Seriously though, I am new to PCCB having tracked exclusively on steel rotors.
I'm not missing the hours cleaning up rims and calipers after a 2 day event.
Yet to really test the PCCB's but early signs are encouraging.
02-03-2017, 11:08 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I've done 33 track days and put 3,000 miles on my GT3 with PCCBs. I'm getting close to the wear limit, but they are still chugging along. I'm pretty hard on the brakes, so these third gen PCCBs are pretty durable on the track.
I will probably go with ST carbon ceramic rotor kit using OEM calipers when it comes time to replace rather than OEM rotors/hats. Still expensive, but much cheaper than OEM, $12,000 vs $32,000.
I will probably go with ST carbon ceramic rotor kit using OEM calipers when it comes time to replace rather than OEM rotors/hats. Still expensive, but much cheaper than OEM, $12,000 vs $32,000.
02-03-2017, 11:52 PM
#39
This is simple, Track on steel, for every thing else PCCB. It is so easy to have both. I would rather replace the rings on Steel rotors vs PCCB's $$$$$$.
02-04-2017, 09:24 AM
#41
Drifting
^that's a great link orthojoe! hard data is always appreciated. 