pitt911

as I said previously , there are dealers that will stick with MSRP for GT cars to their loyal customers, unfortunately , the percentage of these dealers will be shrinking in the future short of an economic collapse.
a recent case from a dealer that I bought my GT3 from at MSRP 2 years ago , will not mention name, and they say they are MSRP dealer
they called me 4 weeks ago about an RS at MSRP , I said wow, I lucked out , it turned out that I have to buy a panamera turbo executive that is 270 k but they give it to me for 230 k
I told them that car is worth 170 k in the current market and I don't need it , so you are asking me to pay 60 k over MSRP for GT3 which they admitted that this the the case
I don't like paying over list , but I respect the market place , and we all hate flippers, but we all will feast off them if the economy goes south and they start dumping these cars

mcsmcs1

I'd rather just pay the 30k-over-list current market premium, than be saddled with that pig at 60k over.

mass27

+1

I've spoken to people who have purchased 1 Porsche each year and they still paid a markup in CA. Even worse than the actual markup is that the dealer feels like they are doing the customer a favor by selling them a car. Once that is the foundation of the relationship, it goes to hell.

tonymission

Bingo. I've had (and still have) some great relationships with various dealerships, but I haven't got the sense that that's possible with any of my local Porsche dealerships. Even after my biz partner came down and bought a couple cars with my GT3 the same day. It's just a different vibe, can't explain it.

I'd rather pay the premium not having to jump through a bunch of hoops and feel like I'm begging to buy a car.

Archimedes

But money isn't stupid or smart. It just is.

Removing MSRP and letting dealers just set the price would eliminate the flippers through simple first degree price discrimination. As long as the initial units were priced high enough, there would be no margin for flippers. The first cars would go to people who actually placed the most value on them. Price would then decline down to the point at which the minimal marginal profit was being earned by the dealer. As long as Porsche made enough cars so as not to overly constrain supply, this process would work efficiently and everyone who was willing to at least pay the minimum marginal profit price level would get a car. The only way this wouldn't work is if Porsche overly constrained supply, but, even then, pricing at market from the start would squeeze out the flippers.

Dealers who sell at MSRP are actually the ones creating the market for flipping. If the initial cars were priced at a market clearing price from the start, there would be no market for speculators/flippers.

CAlexio

By that logic, should all goods, or even just luxury goods go to the highest bidder and have no MSRP? Isn't there a good reason to have an MSRP? Just asking here, I can see what you're getting at.

white6speed

Many of you may recall when speculators ruined the muscle car market. 1967 427/435 Corvettes were knocking on $800-1M. I forgot how many 435 hp cars were made but at one point there were more for sale than Chevrolet made. That market took years to recover, example a one of a kind '69 L88 just auctioned for $800k.
Porsche to some extent as Ferrari creates this market environment. Real question is in spite of what we think, want, does it work for them and it appears it does or they would change their strategy.

carcommander

Would any of you guys (including me) who own an RS take MSRP for it from a non friend or relative?
Most of us would want market price for it.

Why is a dealer any different? He owns the car and is in the business to make money.

You can choose whether you pay it or not. Manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price is just that.

997rs4.0

It works for Porsche. Porsche produces enough cars to satisfy demand.
They will pump out as many 991.2gt3 as they can. They are limited by the production line. It takes time to build cars. I would never pay over Msrp for a car. It's just not that important to me. However I understand those that do.
I would laugh really hard if someone tried to sell me a panamera when I came to buy a gt3.
Like walking in to the butcher and have to buy fish to be allowed to buy steak. 😂😂😂

RealityGT

May as well punch yourself in the face.. Never pay over MSRP, EVER!

tonymission

Good question, and no -- absolutely not.

Archimedes

Setting legal issues aside for a minute, a stated, fixed retail price often provides benefits to the seller, buyer or both, that allows markets to function efficiently from an information flow perspective. So in many, most cases the entire flow of commerce is aided by a fixed, stated price.

However, it's not always the case and it's not uncommon these days to have dynamic pricing on goods. Bought a ski lift ticket lately? Hockey tickets?

My point is that, this seems like a perfect case for variable pricing, as it would squeeze out the flippers. You or I will never solve the problem that someone may be willing to pay more than us for a car and that pisses us off. But by all dealers market pricing the car right from the get go, the second hand speculation opportunity goes away. Then the premium is soley based on who values getting the car first, then second, then third. If Porsche chooses to restrict supply such that the value never gets down to a level you and I like, that's on them. The flippers aren't the real problem. The problem is Porsche restricting supply and dealers selling the cars to VIPs at MSRP when the market price is higher.

JCtx

It'd be interesting to hear CJ's input on this, since he's a dealer now. I don't personally think markups are smart business in the long run. Why? Because most MSRP recipients would be loyal to that dealer with their future car business, and that probably amounts to a lot more than the markup in the long run, especially if you own multiple brands. That's why I'm curious on what will be CJ's strategy, now that he's starting up. I'll NEVER buy any vehicle marked-up, period. But that's just me.

Archimedes

In my example, nothing would stop a dealer from doing that. Each dealer would make their own business decision. But dealers selling below market, coupled with Porsche restricting supply, is what creates the opportunity for flipping. If neither changes, it won't stop.

RealityGT

^there is an easier solution.. Have the dealers sell at only MSRP, which would be their fixed price. It works...
Edit: In the US or course..