bronson7

So it seems I'm reading more and more car enthusiast's are saying this and getting frustrated with Ferrari and Porsche. The question is, why do you think they are approaching it this way? We know Porsche was not like this in the past and I'm going to say (not sure) that Ferrari was not like this either. What made them change? Will McLaren follow the same path? My opinion is much of this has to do with the good times (economy) vs. the not so good times (2008-2011). Will be interesting to see how things infold in the near future.

Maverick787

This is a way to loose high value revenue, and customers with buying power. Clearly this is a big boy game and dollars will call the shots in the end when buyers feel disenfranchised. Will be curious how this plays out in a few years .......if MAC can prop up more dealers for servicing they may have a shot to make enrodes.

-eztrader-

Mac doesn't have the demand or value retention porsche/ ferrari has YET. Lots of Mac dealers have excess inventory. If / when they make a special car that everyone has to have - I could see the games starting there as well.

Agree Bronson - this never ending bull market won't last forever- and is to blame for many of these games and inflated prices.

Nizer

Because expanding production is an expensive multi-year exercise and Ferrari and Porsche are smart enough to know the current environment won't last forever.

bronson7

Ferrari really haven't expanded but Porsche certainly has in the last 15 years to where they are today... and McLaren, how do they fit in on all this? They certainly are starting to take a bigger piece of the so called pie from Ferrari and Porsche and I'm sure they're both aware of this. Certainly interesting times in the next 10 - 15 years.

laranja

McLaren growth is interesting because it shows that not all of the blame for the
structure of the market - i.e. ratio of buyers to flippers & rewarding "relationships"
to get the best cars is the fault of the manufacturers.

The biggest complaint I hear about McLaren is that their cars depreciate too fast.
Moreover, the buyers themselves don't want cars that will be obsolete too fast.
If you limit production & create halo cars, you get people complaining about
the game one must play or having to pay over MSRP to get a car.

So far McLaren seems to be putting it's stake in the ground based around
technical advancement, not as much around creating luxury goods value by
restricting the market. This will probably change pretty soon I'd guess.

Porsche and Fiat have been tuning how to deal with this issue, and I think Porsche NA
found a pretty useful formula with the VIP program.

Interesting to watch and realize it's not just the buyers who are subject to the
problems of supply & demand.

IRguy

I always wanted a Porsche growing up, but I feel that itch got scratched the RS and the GTS4. I like the brand, but not one of those "nothing else but Porsche" fanatic. On the list for a new GT3 however if my dealer starts to play games I have very little if any loyalty feeling and just go for a second McLaren.

CAlexio

Mclaren especially, but also Ferrari really seem to include significant technological innovations into their cars, Porsche seems content to make money trading on its heritage. I wonder how long this will last. At some point, the allure of the significantly faster car with the crazy active aero at relatively cheaper price (mclaren 675LT for less than a 911R) will get compelling even for someone who has worshipped at the altar of PTS and CXX options to boost their cars MSRP... when the Porsche is significant slower, or has 2/3 the power.. do you jump ship to the spaceship newcomer who also by the way doesn't make you lick nuts to get an allocation?

grendel88

The problem I find is that by making all of those Cayennes, Macans, and Panameras, Porsche has to increase their sporting brand with these limited run GT cars. I don't want to lease or buy a Cayenne or Macan for my wife. I don't want to buy a 911 C2S. I want to buy a GT4, GT3, GT3 RS at MSRP.

I liked my 991 GT3 a lot, it was a cancelled PTS but specced out to $180K. At that price, it was close to a GT3 RS MSRP. I could not get one. Year later, can't get a used one close to MSRP. GT4, it took begging several dealers to get one for MSRP, without buckets. 911R, a car designed for "true Porsche lovers" unavailable to anyone except those that spent a $1MM a halo car.

The local McLaren dealer will me test drive a 675LT off the floor. They have only done two limited run cars, which was the 675LT and the P1. For now, MAC is focused on sports cars and servicing people who love sports cars. As long as they make products in this vein and treat their customers this way, I am all good.

These last two years have really opened my eyes to why people have been buying up air cooled cars, complaining about SUVs, b*tching about Porsche in general.

I will always love driving 911s, but f%ck if they don't make it a pain in the *** to buy one you want.

End of rant.

robmypro

I hear you, but I wonder if Porsche isn't seeing the limits of performance, and backing away a bit from the hp wars. For example, a 991 GT3 with 475 bhp will do 200 mph, 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, low 11's in the quarter mile, and be within a tenth of a 458 on most tracks. And for 99% of the people buying these cars, that is more performance than they can use. There's also the fact that the next recession will almost certainly be ugly. How well will supercars sell in that environment? Can McLaren weather that storm? If anything, Porsche has diversified their offerings in a way that helps them ride out any turbulence.

I just think Porsche is, and has always been playing the long game.

bronson7

I believe the bigger part of what's allowed them to play the long game is the introduction of the Boxster, Cayenne, Macan and Panamera's. Without these cars, where would Porsche be today?

Whoopsy

McLaren is still a great engineering company at heart.

Witness the 12C platform, I don't believe no one else can make a platform so versatile performance wise. The tub technology is also first in class. It is just as stiff with or without roof option, and they have also modified the side sill design now to make getting into and out of the car a lot easier.

Because of money constraint, they had to make do with one platform for the time being, but clever engineering on their part make it adapt and evolve.

The platform wasn't designed to include a hybrid system, but they did find ways to work around that limitation, the e-motor location is one, the drop in ride height to compensate the top mounted battery is another.

That hydraulic suspension system is still tops in the market right now, no one else comes close, perhaps Ferrari with the Delphi MagneRide system. Porsche is simply still behind the curve on the suspension tuning. Porsche GT cars works great on track, but on the street they are quite behind the others on ride comfort over bumpy pavements.

CAlexio

another good point.. when my fiancee' drove the P1 we later were talking with the owner about her favorite part, and outside of the power and sounds, she was impressed how smooth it was over admittedly terrible NorCal mountain roads. That was actually one of my happiest days.. watching my girl drive a completely outrageous machine, and when she was done, despite not being a "driver" or gearhead.. she was able to really dissect many parts of the P1 which she enjoyed, and not just say something generic like "wow" or "amazing".

We will be taking that car and some others to Amelia Island in April, will see how comfortable it is over long highway trips... want to see how the hydraulics feel absorbing the humdrum of the highway and not just in a performance oriented environment. That's the hallmark of a well-developed car, if despite having excellent track manners, it can then comfortably get you to and from destinations.

NateOZ

I've moved on from new Porsches, put me in the PTS/CXX bucket with my last 3 911 orders with all being PTS (and having ordered 5 991s). I'm not even going to be buying my wife's and nanny's cars there now. I think there are better options at all levels.

I had to sign a MSRP sale back agreement with my dealer for an early P14 slot at MSRP but that was it. If the car is still worth MSRP in 12 months I'm pretty happy anyway.

Guest89

Porsche would be a memory.

You mean March for Amelia?