EVO: 991 GT3 vs GT3RS vs Cup vs RSR
02-02-2016, 11:21 PM
#17
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02-03-2016, 12:33 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
So, assuming the cars are set up properly, RS is about 1s faster per minute of lap time on this track. That roughly matches the apparent 5s delta at the ring. Still not clear how much of the difference is due to N0 vs N1 tire compounds, but we'll know better when the N1 becomes available in GT3 sizes.
In any case, interesting to note that the seemingly small difference in measured lap time translates to the RS gapping the GT3 significantly as the laps accumulate. Figuring roughly 90 mph average lap speed, on this track the 1.4s lap time difference translates to a gap of 185' per lap - which is about 15 car lengths!
In any case, interesting to note that the seemingly small difference in measured lap time translates to the RS gapping the GT3 significantly as the laps accumulate. Figuring roughly 90 mph average lap speed, on this track the 1.4s lap time difference translates to a gap of 185' per lap - which is about 15 car lengths!
02-03-2016, 12:50 AM
#19
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Manifold, i didn´t knew that the GT3 and GT3RS do have different compounds in the Cup2. Are you sure it is a differnt "rubber" not just another dimension of the tyre wall for example - based on different highspeed loads (aero). needed just based on regulations?
MayorAdam, i don´t think so about the GT4 vs. GT3. cause on a track with a 90mph average... the GT4 is missing 90hp on the GT3 (and the GT3 "just" 25hp to the RS). on small/selective tracks you may be correct.
MayorAdam, i don´t think so about the GT4 vs. GT3. cause on a track with a 90mph average... the GT4 is missing 90hp on the GT3 (and the GT3 "just" 25hp to the RS). on small/selective tracks you may be correct.
02-03-2016, 12:50 AM
#20
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Sounds like someone who really wants to justify an RS. A better way to think about it is that after a 30 minute session at Laguna Seca, you wouldn't even be half a lap up. Even better, 1.4s is well within the difference between even two very capable GT3 drivers at a DE. So, really, there is very little difference at all. To make you feel worse, I'd bet the GT4 is even closer to the GT3 than 1.4s back.
If the article produces any winners to me it is that the 991 Cup car is an absolute bargain for its track performance differential over the road GT3/RS (especially given its restrictiors) and compared to the RSR which is only 2s faster it looks as cheap as chips for the 600k saving...
02-03-2016, 02:25 AM
#21
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the 991 Cup has 215k€ MSRP in GER
30k€ above the 991GT3RS
and 6sec faster on that track.
give the RS slicks and full agressiv setting - it could be head to head. or 1-2sek behind the cup.
and than there are buzzwords like durability, costs of revisions, street legal (with another set of tires)
further on give the std. GT3 a set of slicks - and than compare pricing.
so much win in this lineup!
02-03-2016, 03:00 AM
#22
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the 991 Cup has 215k€ MSRP in GER 30k€ above the 991GT3RS and 6sec faster on that track. give the RS slicks and full agressiv setting - it could be head to head. or 1-2sek behind the cup. and than there are buzzwords like durability, costs of revisions, street legal (with another set of tires) further on give the std. GT3 a set of slicks - and than compare pricing. so much win in this lineup!
02-03-2016, 03:31 AM
#23
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Cup Vs RS issue are not slicks but 600Lbs
02-03-2016, 08:40 AM
#25
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Sounds like someone who really wants to justify an RS. A better way to think about it is that after a 30 minute session at Laguna Seca, you wouldn't even be half a lap up. Even better, 1.4s is well within the difference between even two very capable GT3 drivers at a DE. So, really, there is very little difference at all. To make you feel worse, I'd bet the GT4 is even closer to the GT3 than 1.4s back.
For me personally, 1.4s on a track of this length definitely isn't enough to justify the higher price of the RS. The GT3 is already fast enough, and N1 rubber should close some of the gap. I'd need the subjective experience of driving the car to be much superior, but even then it's more than I want to spend on a track car.
Agree that the gap between two 'advanced' DE drivers of the GT3 can easily be 1.4s or more. For that matter, my own lap time can vary by more than that based on tires, track conditions, how hard I want to push, how in-the-zone I am, etc.
Last edited by Manifold; 02-03-2016 at 09:21 AM.
02-03-2016, 09:47 AM
#26
There was an article which compared the the GT4 and RS, and noted that the N1 rubber of the RS tires seemed to have more grip than the N0 rubber of the GT4, especially in the wet.
My point was that a seemingly small difference in lap time translates into an obvious physical gap on the track, as the article indicates.
For me personally, 1.4s on a track of this length definitely isn't enough to justify the higher price of the RS. The GT3 is already fast enough, and N1 rubber should close some of the gap. I'd need the subjective experience of driving the car to be much superior, but even then it's more than I want to spend on a track car.
Agree that the gap between two 'advanced' DE drivers of the GT3 can easily be 1.4s or more. For that matter, my own lap time can vary by more than that based on tires, track conditions, how hard I want to push, how in-the-zone I am, etc.
My point was that a seemingly small difference in lap time translates into an obvious physical gap on the track, as the article indicates.
For me personally, 1.4s on a track of this length definitely isn't enough to justify the higher price of the RS. The GT3 is already fast enough, and N1 rubber should close some of the gap. I'd need the subjective experience of driving the car to be much superior, but even then it's more than I want to spend on a track car.
Agree that the gap between two 'advanced' DE drivers of the GT3 can easily be 1.4s or more. For that matter, my own lap time can vary by more than that based on tires, track conditions, how hard I want to push, how in-the-zone I am, etc.
Once again, 1.4sec is no game and not little.. As someone mentioned earlier, 15 car lengths difference?
N0 N1 issue is still theoritical, u can't rely on driver's feedback regarding this topic, and NO WAY a different version of the same tire could close a significant gap.. Maybe it's better in the wet only.. We don't know
02-03-2016, 10:08 AM
#27
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Once again, 1.4sec is no game and not little.. As someone mentioned earlier, 15 car lengths difference?
N0 N1 issue is still theoritical, u can't rely on driver's feedback regarding this topic, and NO WAY a different version of the same tire could close a significant gap.. Maybe it's better in the wet only.. We don't know
N0 N1 issue is still theoritical, u can't rely on driver's feedback regarding this topic, and NO WAY a different version of the same tire could close a significant gap.. Maybe it's better in the wet only.. We don't know
In racing, being consistently 1.4s faster per lap is a big deal, no doubt. For non-racing fun driving, 1.4s is much less significant, given that, as noted, the lap time variations among 'advanced' drivers of equal cars are often more than that, and the variation between cars in the same run group is usually much more than that.
If it's mainly about speed, RS loses to the Viper ACR and even the 991.2 Turbo S.
02-03-2016, 11:08 AM
#29
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There was an article which compared the the GT4 and RS, and noted that the N1 rubber of the RS tires seemed to have more grip than the N0 rubber of the GT4, especially in the wet.
My point was that a seemingly small difference in lap time translates into an obvious physical gap on the track, as the article indicates.
For me personally, 1.4s on a track of this length definitely isn't enough to justify the higher price of the RS. The GT3 is already fast enough, and N1 rubber should close some of the gap. I'd need the subjective experience of driving the car to be much superior, but even then it's more than I want to spend on a track car.
Agree that the gap between two 'advanced' DE drivers of the GT3 can easily be 1.4s or more. For that matter, my own lap time can vary by more than that based on tires, track conditions, how hard I want to push, how in-the-zone I am, etc.
My point was that a seemingly small difference in lap time translates into an obvious physical gap on the track, as the article indicates.
For me personally, 1.4s on a track of this length definitely isn't enough to justify the higher price of the RS. The GT3 is already fast enough, and N1 rubber should close some of the gap. I'd need the subjective experience of driving the car to be much superior, but even then it's more than I want to spend on a track car.
Agree that the gap between two 'advanced' DE drivers of the GT3 can easily be 1.4s or more. For that matter, my own lap time can vary by more than that based on tires, track conditions, how hard I want to push, how in-the-zone I am, etc.
02-03-2016, 11:16 AM
#30
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During this same press day, we had the scribe at Excellence there and his times in the article had the GT3 faster than the RS. This just shows that less experienced drivers will have trouble maximizing the potential of the RS. I can't help but wonder what Jethro's personal times were in both- he's no slouch but.... the fact that the only times quoted are from Bergmiester speaks volumes.
I too would like to know what Jethro's times were, especially in the GT3 and RS.