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As a previous 981 S owner and GT3 owner, I loved both. I know the 981 S is not a GT4, regardless it was superb on the track! I've seen GT4's run in our group and they are SPECTACULAR, huge respect. But no matter how you slice it, they are NOT on the same level as a GT3, they just are not and again I love the 981 platform.
Also, I feel the mid engine VS rear engine, has to be one of the most overblown exaggerations in the motoring world. I much preferred the rear engine GT3, found it much more predictable and fast as well. I know others may have different preferences but to act like one platform is so vastly superior to the other is straight up BS, atleat in my experience.
Great pics! Visually, those gt3 hips can't be beaten, but the gt4 with the side scoops and rear tires, in real life carries its own visual gravitas. I have finally seen a Spyder in the flesh (ordered sight unseen like most) and something was slightly missing visually without the scoops, too slab sided. However, the car looks very planted and "exotic" without the roof, overall i liked it a bit better than the gt4. (maybe that's owner bias talking)
Regarding driving dynamics of rear-engined cars, my experience here is very limited compared to others... aside from the '64 356c I drove in high school, my only real track experience in a rear engine car came a few weeks ago at AMP in a friend's gt3 RS. There is a right turning downhill then uphill hairpin, turn 6.. which reminded me what having a big engine out back means if you're late on the brakes and therefore still with front of the car loaded when turning.. because as planted as the RS was, in that spot when i got lazy on brakes... I could FEEL that big lump start to drag the car around, and with the TC off the rear feelt all light and wiggly and it just SNAPPED around on one of my laps. Luckily the uphill and wide track allow for a bit of throttle-on recovery but I can see how it would get a lot hairier on the road, or without electronics. I can't imagine what serious road driving in a gt3 like Macca is describing feels like. Even when we think we are going fast, we drive so far below the limits on the roads that true dynamics of the vehicle don't come into play.
Hoping the spyder allows for some "feel" through steering and engagement with gearshifts so that I can keep the temptation to make it dance on the road at bay.
Having driven the two cars back to back on track at Barber, I preferred the GT3, an opinion shared by nearly everyone in our PSDS session. Despite the different drivetrain layouts neither car had a significant advantage in handling or behavior under braking. The defining difference is in engine performance; the GT4, by design, just can't compare with the GT3.
I know some are saying that for the street the GT3 over GT4 performance advantage isn't relevant. Maybe. But try to tell that to someone who just bought a new RS for the arguably even smaller performance advantage over the GT3. They feel the RS is on a slightly different level. Likewise, for me, there's just something special about the GT3 that the GT4 can't match. Of course, at it's price point, the GT3 ought to be more "special".
There are other things that come down to subjective preference, like styling and interior layout. I prefer the classic 911 silhouette, 5 gauge instrument layout, and the more open interior without a bulkhead right behind the seat. But that's personal. As has been stated many times, no one will go wrong with either car, but there is only one choice for me.
^^ also depends on use.
I could end up preferring the RS on the street because automatic luxo cruiser, or the GT4 because more engaging to drive on the street because manual. In FL not so sure in CA probably more fun in canyons in GT4.
Maybe the RS is just too much attention while too boring to putter around home to office and back.
I could end up preferring RS on track because spaceship fast and and mega grip and downforce or GT4 because there's nothing like a big trailbrake rotation while heel and toeing into a corner.
Maybe I like 964 better than both..
Gotto try them in your own sandbox for a while to really see what you like.
Jimmy,
Nice write up.
I have both cars in my garage and I would have written an almost exact assessment.
I track the GT3 and will track the GT4.
It's just a variation of the amazing brand and technology...
Different, yet very similar and more "approachable" in my opinion.
It also let's my wife be involved as she was intimidated by the GT3...
I think gt3 is too much to enjoy on street. You really need to take it on a race track.
Hell no, I used mine as DD and it was a pure pleasure to drive on the street and on country drives, blasting along through the corners. Obviously if you live in a city or high traffic area's, its not going to be fun.
^^ also depends on use. I could end up preferring the RS on the street because automatic luxo cruiser, or the GT4 because more engaging to drive on the street because manual. In FL not so sure in CA probably more fun in canyons in GT4. Maybe the RS is just too much attention while too boring to putter around home to office and back. I could end up preferring RS on track because spaceship fast and and mega grip and downforce or GT4 because there's nothing like a big trailbrake rotation while heel and toeing into a corner. Maybe I like 964 better than both.. Gotto try them in your own sandbox for a while to really see what you like.
^^ also depends on use.
I could end up preferring the RS on the street because automatic luxo cruiser, or the GT4 because more engaging to drive on the street because manual. In FL not so sure in CA probably more fun in canyons in GT4.
Maybe the RS is just too much attention while too boring to putter around home to office and back.
I could end up preferring RS on track because spaceship fast and and mega grip and downforce or GT4 because there's nothing like a big trailbrake rotation while heel and toeing into a corner.
Maybe I like 964 better than both..
Gotto try them in your own sandbox for a while to really see what you like.
Agree. There are lot's of subjective variables. Just to add, I've read posts from people saying that they prefer the RS to the GT3 and that "the RS is the best car they've ever owned". Why? I'm guessing it's not because they can use the performance differential on the street or track....it's impossible on the street and the car is too valuable for some to use on track.
But there is something special for them about the RS that the GT3 can't quite match, even if they rarely exploit the added performance. I'm just saying that the GT3, especially because of it's engine, offers something the GT4 can't match. For others, the manual gearbox in the GT4 offers an experience the GT3 can't match. In the end, it's not about one car being better than the other, but there are differences. And depending which difference is important to you, it makes all the difference in the world.
^^And I think Mike hit it on the nose. They are all SPECIAL. I think the engine in the GT3 makes it SPECIAL. I am assuming the beefier engine and tweaks they did to the RS makes it SPECIAL( not that is it is worth $100,00 more would add to that ). I also think the manual, steering, and sort of the "Jet fighter cockpit" feeling of the GT makes it SPECIAL.
You can not go wrong with either of these. It all just boils down to your own intentions, tastes, motivation, ego or whatever leads one to one or the other.
Agree. There are lot's of subjective variables. Just to add, I've read posts from people saying that they prefer the RS to the GT3 and that "the RS is the best car they've ever owned". Why? I'm guessing it's not because they can use the performance differential on the street or track....it's impossible on the street and the car is too valuable for some to use on track.
But there is something special for them about the RS that the GT3 can't quite match, even if they rarely exploit the added performance. I'm just saying that the GT3, especially because of it's engine, offers something the GT4 can't match. For others, the manual gearbox in the GT4 offers an experience the GT3 can't match. In the end, it's not about one car being better than the other, but there are differences. And depending which difference is important to you, it makes all the difference in the world.
My take - I can kind of see why some justify RS compared to the GT3, but doesn't necessarily mean the same justifications apply to the GT3 vs GT4. The RS is the same formula as GT3 taken to a nth degree, in other words, GT3 is a RS lite. If you want the ultimate in that experience, RS is the car to have (not withstanding if you can actually feel the difference or not). But on the other hand, GT4 is completely different experience to GT3 (or RS). It is not GT3 lite, thanks to the manual (and mid engine).
ps. Nice, review Jimmy, like you, I am mostly a street/back road kind of guy. And the GT4 is a hoot on mountain roads - it feels like it is almost made for that purpose. You will enjoy it.
I think there's a big difference in having the engine behind the rear axle and having it in front of the rear axle. It changes the dynamic of the drive,brake in,turn in and pull out of a corner. I am surprised to hear that some think it's not different,it is. Again,I am not saying it's better,just different.
I don't know why I've felt the GT3 to be moving around a bit under heavy braking and I am not an engineer,but I can imagine how the load forces under braking work on a rear engined car vs a mid engined car. I'm not good enough of a driver to prefer one over the other,but I can certainly tell they are different.
Bear in mind that the GT4 is lighter,yet it uses the same brakes and tires as the GT3(except of course the wider patch of the rear tires in the GT3). The rear suspension in the GT3 is more advanced than the one in the GT4 and the RWS along the wider front track improved the 911 tendency to understeer,making it virtually undetectable.
Overall the GT3 is faster,the engine pulls harder out of a corner because of the HP advantage,faster shifts and better traction,but the GT4 is no slouch. You can actually carry more speed through the corner in the GT4,but you will lose the advantage once you get on the throttle.
Give the GT4 40-50 more HP and there will be a few upset GT3 owners at the track IMO.
12-21-2015, 03:57 PM
