991RS beats all in CAR comparo
10-14-2015, 12:19 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
991RS beats all in CAR comparo
November edition of car compares all the usual suspects..488,GT4,AMG GT etc...
Have not got it yet, but will buy it when I can......
Have not got it yet, but will buy it when I can......
10-14-2015, 03:32 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
^Thanks for the link. Spoiler alert below....
The reckoning
8) Corvette Z06 - Extraordinary engine, fine chassis, scary tyres. Bargain in the US; £112,910 here…
7) Lotus Evora 400 - Dreamy steering but the details will keep you awake at night
6) AMG GTS - Too well-rounded to win, but AMG’s Gran Turismo is a fine sports car
5) Lamborghini Aventador SV - Best Lamborghini ever? Believe. A £315k, 740bhp triumph of evolution
4) Porsche Cayman GT4 - The runaway winner if you factor in price. No wonder its biggest issue is availability
3) McLaren 675LT - A cut-price P1, and as focused and rewarding as the 650S is versatile
2) Ferrari 488 GTB - Breathtaking agility and speed, delivered apparently without effort
1) Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Special like a race car; practical like a (two-seat) 911. Best driver’s Porsche yet
And the winner is... By Gavin Green
We all like the car that must come last – this is one of those tests. The Corvette’s NASCAR V8 growl is bewitching, its punch of torque intoxicating, and the Z06 copes with narrow, undulating, pitted and gravel-peppered Welsh B-roads, surely the polar opposite of the wide, smooth blacktops for which it was bred. Had the Corvette engineers even heard of a Welsh secondary? Unlikely.
In the end, it’s just not sharp and precise enough for a British B-road, not when it’s facing opposition of this calibre. Those near-slick Michelins didn’t help, though they certainly boosted the entertainment factor.
Conversely, the Lotus is designed for these roads. The Evora has the best steering here, a sublime chassis, and copes with the dips and turns of a UK secondary as easily as a swift deals with a thermal stream. The Evora flows over these roads, never fighting. The downside is the V6 engine, void of the throttle sensitivity that the rest of the car deserves. Plus, that homespun style is a problem, especially in a car costing more than the Cayman.
Winging 'ell. Enough height on these spoilers to bolt on to a touring car
The AMG boasts the widest capability: surprisingly nimble over the moors, relaxed on the motorway. The twin-turbo engine is fabulous, the gearshift less so. I like sitting behind that long bonnet, hefty horsepower up front, but ultimately it just can’t compete for entertainment on the twisty stuff, not up against the best from Porsche and Ferrari.
The Lamborghini SV – the traditional supercar of this bunch – won us over with its character, and surprised us with its composure. We love its V12. We love its agility, which defies its two metre-plus girth. In some key areas though – gearshift, seats – it can’t compete. Plus the terrible visibility and video-game instrumentation undoubtedly diminish driving pleasure.
So our top three, from bronze to gold, runs McLaren 675LT, Ferrari 488 GTB, Porsche 911 GT3 RS. If value for money were a factor (it wasn’t), the fourth-placed Cayman would win. How could it fail, when it costs half as much as a GT3 and one-fifth of an Aventador? We all love it. But its rival Porsche, the GT3 RS, is faster, sharper, more dramatic to drive, has more definition to its steering and better modulation to its braking.
The Ferrari is awesome, of course. The new turbocharged engine has slightly dulled the throttle sharpness of the old 458 and, more important, the linearity of the torque delivery. The flipside is that the turbo-inflating torque makes it easier to drive briskly, the power always on tap. It is a less frenzied sports car than the 911, more supple, less hardcore, not so immersive; majestically entertaining but somehow less engaging.
Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner. The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.
And the 675LT? It may have won, were it not for its DNF – ‘a powertrain issue on a pre-production press car, and the result of damage sustained on a previous activity’ according to McLaren. To drive this driver-focused evolution of the 650S is to be smitten. The LT is more nimble than the GT3 RS, faster and enjoys better steering, though its engine is less sweet, if ultimately more forceful at high revs. The McLaren also boasts the finest driving position here. The only consolation is that there is always a next time.
The reckoning
8) Corvette Z06 - Extraordinary engine, fine chassis, scary tyres. Bargain in the US; £112,910 here…
7) Lotus Evora 400 - Dreamy steering but the details will keep you awake at night
6) AMG GTS - Too well-rounded to win, but AMG’s Gran Turismo is a fine sports car
5) Lamborghini Aventador SV - Best Lamborghini ever? Believe. A £315k, 740bhp triumph of evolution
4) Porsche Cayman GT4 - The runaway winner if you factor in price. No wonder its biggest issue is availability
3) McLaren 675LT - A cut-price P1, and as focused and rewarding as the 650S is versatile
2) Ferrari 488 GTB - Breathtaking agility and speed, delivered apparently without effort
1) Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Special like a race car; practical like a (two-seat) 911. Best driver’s Porsche yet
And the winner is... By Gavin Green
We all like the car that must come last – this is one of those tests. The Corvette’s NASCAR V8 growl is bewitching, its punch of torque intoxicating, and the Z06 copes with narrow, undulating, pitted and gravel-peppered Welsh B-roads, surely the polar opposite of the wide, smooth blacktops for which it was bred. Had the Corvette engineers even heard of a Welsh secondary? Unlikely.
In the end, it’s just not sharp and precise enough for a British B-road, not when it’s facing opposition of this calibre. Those near-slick Michelins didn’t help, though they certainly boosted the entertainment factor.
Conversely, the Lotus is designed for these roads. The Evora has the best steering here, a sublime chassis, and copes with the dips and turns of a UK secondary as easily as a swift deals with a thermal stream. The Evora flows over these roads, never fighting. The downside is the V6 engine, void of the throttle sensitivity that the rest of the car deserves. Plus, that homespun style is a problem, especially in a car costing more than the Cayman.
Winging 'ell. Enough height on these spoilers to bolt on to a touring car
The AMG boasts the widest capability: surprisingly nimble over the moors, relaxed on the motorway. The twin-turbo engine is fabulous, the gearshift less so. I like sitting behind that long bonnet, hefty horsepower up front, but ultimately it just can’t compete for entertainment on the twisty stuff, not up against the best from Porsche and Ferrari.
The Lamborghini SV – the traditional supercar of this bunch – won us over with its character, and surprised us with its composure. We love its V12. We love its agility, which defies its two metre-plus girth. In some key areas though – gearshift, seats – it can’t compete. Plus the terrible visibility and video-game instrumentation undoubtedly diminish driving pleasure.
So our top three, from bronze to gold, runs McLaren 675LT, Ferrari 488 GTB, Porsche 911 GT3 RS. If value for money were a factor (it wasn’t), the fourth-placed Cayman would win. How could it fail, when it costs half as much as a GT3 and one-fifth of an Aventador? We all love it. But its rival Porsche, the GT3 RS, is faster, sharper, more dramatic to drive, has more definition to its steering and better modulation to its braking.
The Ferrari is awesome, of course. The new turbocharged engine has slightly dulled the throttle sharpness of the old 458 and, more important, the linearity of the torque delivery. The flipside is that the turbo-inflating torque makes it easier to drive briskly, the power always on tap. It is a less frenzied sports car than the 911, more supple, less hardcore, not so immersive; majestically entertaining but somehow less engaging.
Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner. The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.
And the 675LT? It may have won, were it not for its DNF – ‘a powertrain issue on a pre-production press car, and the result of damage sustained on a previous activity’ according to McLaren. To drive this driver-focused evolution of the 650S is to be smitten. The LT is more nimble than the GT3 RS, faster and enjoys better steering, though its engine is less sweet, if ultimately more forceful at high revs. The McLaren also boasts the finest driving position here. The only consolation is that there is always a next time.
10-14-2015, 03:44 PM
#5
This is fantastic.
Does anyone else wonder how Porsche will tread given the current RS' accolades in regard to a 991.2 RS? It seems the current RS is a press sweetheart and they've nailed the magical formula for a car that can be perceived as being used for both road and track duty. It's a double edged sword in that the next version will inevitably be compared to the current version - which the press finds little fault with.
Does anyone else wonder how Porsche will tread given the current RS' accolades in regard to a 991.2 RS? It seems the current RS is a press sweetheart and they've nailed the magical formula for a car that can be perceived as being used for both road and track duty. It's a double edged sword in that the next version will inevitably be compared to the current version - which the press finds little fault with.
10-14-2015, 03:52 PM
#6
Drifting
This is fantastic.
Does anyone else wonder how Porsche will tread given the current RS' accolades in regard to a 991.2 RS? It seems the current RS is a press sweetheart and they've nailed the magical formula for a car that can be perceived as being used for both road and track duty. It's a double edged sword in that the next version will inevitably be compared to the current version - which the press finds little fault with.
Does anyone else wonder how Porsche will tread given the current RS' accolades in regard to a 991.2 RS? It seems the current RS is a press sweetheart and they've nailed the magical formula for a car that can be perceived as being used for both road and track duty. It's a double edged sword in that the next version will inevitably be compared to the current version - which the press finds little fault with.
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10-14-2015, 06:33 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Its funny how if you replace the 8600 with 9000 rpm you pretty much have the 991 GT3 as well IMO!!
However at the time the press were so concerned about the PDK it distracted them from what a great drivers car the GT3 was on the road. To me its the "bargain" of the range (sits in the middle price wise but offers 95%+ the performance of the RS in a more svelte and elegant below the radar package). No arguing the value in the GT4, shame its doesnt have a bespoke engine tho.
Real shame the 675LT had problems. This is the one car Evo and others have said could be better than the GT3RS. That said Im sure its a lot more expensive...
"Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner.
The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.drivers car the base GT3 actually is. By the time it came to the RS they have been conditioned?"
However at the time the press were so concerned about the PDK it distracted them from what a great drivers car the GT3 was on the road. To me its the "bargain" of the range (sits in the middle price wise but offers 95%+ the performance of the RS in a more svelte and elegant below the radar package). No arguing the value in the GT4, shame its doesnt have a bespoke engine tho.
Real shame the 675LT had problems. This is the one car Evo and others have said could be better than the GT3RS. That said Im sure its a lot more expensive...
"Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner.
The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.drivers car the base GT3 actually is. By the time it came to the RS they have been conditioned?"
10-14-2015, 06:41 PM
#10
Race Director
Enjoy and appreciate the beauty of NA ....
"The Ferrari is awesome, of course. The new turbocharged engine has slightly dulled the throttle sharpness of the old 458 and, more important, the linearity of the torque delivery."
"The Ferrari is awesome, of course. The new turbocharged engine has slightly dulled the throttle sharpness of the old 458 and, more important, the linearity of the torque delivery."
10-14-2015, 07:54 PM
#11
Its funny how if you replace the 8600 with 9000 rpm you pretty much have the 991 GT3 as well IMO!!
However at the time the press were so concerned about the PDK it distracted them from what a great drivers car the GT3 was on the road. To me its the "bargain" of the range (sits in the middle price wise but offers 95%+ the performance of the RS in a more svelte and elegant below the radar package). No arguing the value in the GT4, shame its doesnt have a bespoke engine tho.
Real shame the 675LT had problems. This is the one car Evo and others have said could be better than the GT3RS. That said Im sure its a lot more expensive...
"Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner.
The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.drivers car the base GT3 actually is. By the time it came to the RS they have been conditioned?"
However at the time the press were so concerned about the PDK it distracted them from what a great drivers car the GT3 was on the road. To me its the "bargain" of the range (sits in the middle price wise but offers 95%+ the performance of the RS in a more svelte and elegant below the radar package). No arguing the value in the GT4, shame its doesnt have a bespoke engine tho.
Real shame the 675LT had problems. This is the one car Evo and others have said could be better than the GT3RS. That said Im sure its a lot more expensive...
"Ultimately, though, it doesn’t thrill or reward quite like the GT3 RS, our winner.
The Porsche is a track car boasting surprisingly civilised road manners. The throttle response and barely credible 8800rpm redline are both sensational, the gearshift crackerjack instant. It is, very possibly, the best driver’s car Porsche has ever made.drivers car the base GT3 actually is. By the time it came to the RS they have been conditioned?"
10-14-2015, 08:06 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I think 5% is about right for an RS over a GT3 in stock trim. Purely hypothetically that's probably too much as it translates to 5s benefit on a 1.40 GT3 track and from what I'm reading the out right difference in such a scenario is more like 2-3s equal driver. So that's 2-3%.
But regardless how you measure it on paper there are a lot of intangible benefits that make the RS special and worth the extra including residuals. Residuals aside its a special car, looks very aggressive with lots of model specific detailing and exotic materials.
As for looks and stance i prefer the GT3 but there is no denying the RS is a work of visual drama. Purely in dynamic terms the difference between the two Cars on the track can be less than a worn set if MPSC2 but in the real world the RS demands more kudos ...
But regardless how you measure it on paper there are a lot of intangible benefits that make the RS special and worth the extra including residuals. Residuals aside its a special car, looks very aggressive with lots of model specific detailing and exotic materials.
As for looks and stance i prefer the GT3 but there is no denying the RS is a work of visual drama. Purely in dynamic terms the difference between the two Cars on the track can be less than a worn set if MPSC2 but in the real world the RS demands more kudos ...
10-14-2015, 08:14 PM
#13
I think 5% is about right for an RS over a GT3 in stock trim. Purely hypothetically that's probably too much as it translates to 5s benefit on a 1.40 GT3 track and from what I'm reading the out right difference in such a scenario is more like 2-3s equal driver. So that's 2-3%.
But regardless how you measure it on paper there are a lot of intangible benefits that make the RS special and worth the extra including residuals. Residuals aside its a special car, looks very aggressive with lots of model specific detailing and exotic materials.
As for looks and stance i prefer the GT3 but there is no denying the RS is a work of visual drama. Purely in dynamic terms the difference between the two Cars on the track can be less than a worn set if MPSC2 but in the real world the RS demands more kudos ...
But regardless how you measure it on paper there are a lot of intangible benefits that make the RS special and worth the extra including residuals. Residuals aside its a special car, looks very aggressive with lots of model specific detailing and exotic materials.
As for looks and stance i prefer the GT3 but there is no denying the RS is a work of visual drama. Purely in dynamic terms the difference between the two Cars on the track can be less than a worn set if MPSC2 but in the real world the RS demands more kudos ...
10-14-2015, 08:21 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I guess my point was rather how the press have softened to PDK,-S ,RWS and electric steering and extra weight with the RS when the GT3 although very well received was criticised for these aspects when those same systems and settings are used basically unchanged in RS but no mention of any of these as negative attributes.
Amazing how quickly man can more on. It's both good and bad and probably the reason manuals are becoming extinct and cars heavier, faster and more complex. If the motoring community had pushed back in the press the next RS could be manual and lighter but I don't believe that will happen now. In fact with diesel gate I suspect PDK (due to better EPA) will be more prevalent not less in the next 5 years PAG product Road map....
Amazing how quickly man can more on. It's both good and bad and probably the reason manuals are becoming extinct and cars heavier, faster and more complex. If the motoring community had pushed back in the press the next RS could be manual and lighter but I don't believe that will happen now. In fact with diesel gate I suspect PDK (due to better EPA) will be more prevalent not less in the next 5 years PAG product Road map....
10-14-2015, 10:21 PM
#15
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Agree with Macca up above.
Also, wouldn't this summary of the GT4 apply also to the GT3 (as well as the RS, but maybe a bit less so)?
Also, wouldn't this summary of the GT4 apply also to the GT3 (as well as the RS, but maybe a bit less so)?
4) Porsche Cayman GT4 - The runaway winner if you factor in price. No wonder its biggest issue is availability