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^yup.. Throughout my whole process trying to get my gt3/4 they were majority 918 allocations selling at mark up.
really? all of a sudden you all think dealers are honest creatures that never lie and make somebody else the bad cop during transaction? of course they going to point fingers at 918 owners. it is an age old game:
"i'd love to sell you this car at cost, but my manager won't let me"
"i'd love to give you a deal but we have other customers willing to pay more"
"let me go ask my GM - oh, sorry buddy, he says he can't lower the price"
so if dealers said "if it wasn't for those evil 918 owners, i'd sell you this car at half MSRP" -- you would believe it also?
look I am sure there are some bad apples in the VIP program, but do the math: only 300 918 cars sold and if you assume 2/3rd of them went to collectors who want to own GT3RS, GT4 and 911R that leave about 100 VIP allocations where shenanigans can happen. I find it hard to believe 100 cars spread across population of North America can move the needle that much...
Regardless Anonymous, you have good taste in cars so enjoy them.
Ever seen that Curb your Enthusiasm episode with the "anonymous donor"? I can't help but think of that every time is see your name. Hilarious. Larry David is a riot.
Reminder, the original goal of the 918 VIP program was to help sell a car which wasn't selling very well at the time, at least, not as well as the equivalent Ferrari and McLaren products. I'm sure there is some level of unintended consequences from this program, but the original goal was definitely achieved.
I was told by a dealer last week that cars for the 918 program do not come out of their allocations. True or false?
True - my dealer got 7 RSs, 5 VIP cars through 918 and 2 non-VIP allocations. Because of the VIP program they'll sell more RSs than regular GT3s (they had 6).
I think Anonymous is spot on, dealers are hiding behind the 918 VIP program to justify their markups and every time I see a post on here of someone's dealer saying X of their allocations were taken by 918 VIP customers, it's just marketing bs.
At RRV, AP said there would be less difference between the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3/RS
than there was between the 997.1 and 997.2. I interpret that to mean a small facelift;
no transmission changes, or complete model transformations.
The 911R, or whatever this unicorn is called, would therefore be a separate model.
Originally Posted by STG991
That's what I recall someone posting. Thanks.
Yes, the "unicorn" should get some of the attention away from the GT3 and RS
which would be fine for many.
Originally Posted by sccchiii
I wasn't there and I remember that was posted here or something to that degree
but did he actually quote "991 second gen" or did he simply say the next versions
of both models? I put a lot of faith into what Eduardo and others heard, I only ask
because I have found in the past especially with AP's conversations and interviews
that a lot of filling in the blanks and assumptions are made to interpret what his
intended message was... especially with the future product planning (AP is lead
trainer at Porsche's "misdirection" interviewing school also). To decipher his
sometimes cryptic sentences is an art form and few get it completely right
100% of the time.
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Eduardo asked the question and got the response...I'm sure he will chime in if
he's reading this...it was clear to me AP was referring to the 991.2.
I think we have all learned to be careful in quoting, much less freely trying to interpret,
what Andreas Preuninger tells us at these public events. But I indeed asked Andreas the
question about the future gt3 at the PCA tent talk and he gave a general answer like the
one reported by 'Alan Smithee'. Unfortunately, I had run out of juice on my iPhone by
then, so I didn't record his response so that we could analyze it carefully afterwards.
**********
Originally Posted by neanicu
A good Porsche historian (Eduardo) / enthusiast can take a pretty good guess,
judging by past production numbers. Multiply that with today's modern production
capabilities and your estimate will be pretty accurate.
I'll let others here do it Neanicu...we are certainly not short of speculation on that 911R
production number will be!
*********
Originally Posted by NateOZ
I think Anonymous is spot on, dealers are hiding behind the 918 VIP program to
justify their markups and every time I see a post on here of someone's dealer
saying X of their allocations were taken by 918 VIP customers, it's just marketing bs.
I also think that if there is someone taking advantage of the '918 Spyder Circle', as the VIP
program is officially called, it's certain Porsche dealers with 918 customers & not necessarily
the individual 918 owners. So I agree with Nate & Anonymous.
But there is also fault on PCNA's side. Dealers are often forced by PCNA into expensive renovations
& other so-called improvements / investments that are often absurd & uneconomical. So savvy dealer
principals have learned to exploit certain loopholes (e.g. 918 VIP allocations) to game the system and
recoup some of what they see as 'wasted' dollars they had to shell out to keep their dealership agreement.
***
By the way, I had a very interesting conversation with David Donohue, 918 Client Relationship Manager,
at Rennsport V. I found him in the paddock on Sunday as he was by quietly by himself next to his dad's
Team Penske Porsche 917/30. The scene was quite touching, as I pictured him at that moment remembering
his dad siting inside that same automobile in the last years of his life. He was taking photos of the interior of
the cockpit as I approached him to begin our conversation. I must tell you I like David Donohue quite a bit.
He has a very calm demeanor that I think he has used well to deal with all the egos that he has had to face
as PCNA's point person to 918 clients. And I asked him specifically about some reported abuses of the VIP
allocation privileges that we have seen reported here at Rennlist. For example, why wasn't there a 6 month
'hold' on the ability of a 918 customer to sell the allocation for a 991 gt3 RS or GT4 obtained under the program.
He responded by saying that it was not all black & white. What if a 918 owner bought a gt3 RS or gt4 and just
didn't like it...would you then force him to hold on to it for 6 more months? He said that he knew a number of
918 owners that had ordered an RS and a gt4. The RS was too much like the 918 in terms of excess performance
for the road...yet the gt4 was usable in everyday situations. In that case, he was not surprise to see the 918
owner selling the gt3 RS and keeping the gt4. So it seems like PCNA has given some thought to all the angles...
and in the end has decided not to hold a VIP customer to a forced 'hold' rule.
How about their best clients who have been buying their cars for 10, 20, 30+ years?? Life long customers getting the shaft. Many with over a million dollars in total purchases.
But there is also fault on PCNA's side. Dealers are often forced by PCNA into expensive renovations
& other so-called improvements / investments that are often absurd & uneconomical. So savvy dealer
principals have learned to exploit certain loopholes (e.g. 918 VIP allocations) to game the system and
recoup some of what they see as 'wasted' dollars they had to shell out to keep their dealership agreement.
^^^^^^^^^
This is a reality in any franchised business. You're required to uphold the companies standards and image. Buildings and remodeling are part of that. It's all in the franchise agreement. There's no surprises there. Whether you're McDonalds, Porsche, Subway, or Toyota.
Trust me, no Porsche dealer is hurting financially. If they need the "market adjustments" to stay afloat, they have bigger issues.
If anything, they're alienating their customers and future business by playing these games. I know many enthusiasts with very long memories and don't forget. It's easy to stiff people when the going is good, but what happens when it all slows down??
Not to mention, each dealer has a false sense of demand with guys on 5 waiting lists for the same car at different dealers.
This is a reality in any franchised business. You're required to uphold the companies standards and image. Buildings and remodeling are part of that. It's all in the franchise agreement. There's no surprises there.
Trust me, no Porsche dealer is hurting financially. If they need the "market adjustments" to stay afloat, they have bigger issues.
If anything, they're alienating their customers and future business by playing these games. I know many enthusiasts with very long memories and don't forget. It's easy to stiff people when the going is good, but what happens when it all slows down??
Not to mention, each dealer has a false sense of demand with guys on 5 waiting lists for the same car at different dealers.
For what it's worth ....
Agreed no one is feeling bad for the dealers.....however, I have visited many Porsche dealers around the U.S. and before the "new image" program was required (with financial benefits for those dealers that complete it) I would be hard pressed to say any of them needed updating, that is why dealers are slightly disgusted about needing to complete these. In fact it was not to long ago that the last image/facility program requirements were finished for many just to be told to get ready to spend again. If we were told we needed to gut and remodel our house every 2-3 years we might be upset as well.....I'd be selling my RS allocations to highest bidders to pay for it ha ha
You can't sell 100K+ cars in dealerships that look worse than a Kia or Hyundai one. They're not remodeling every 2-3 years!!
Porsche knows what they're doing. Not sure how long their franchise agreements are for, but it's not like Porsche can just demand a million dollar + remodel just like that. It's part of renewing a franchise agreement for a specified timeframe.
It makes people feel more special writing checks in a fancy dealership. How many Gucci purses could you sell at full retail at Walmart?
How is this an excuse for shenanigans played by dealers who don't value their loyal clientele?
You can't sell 100K+ cars in dealerships that look worse than a Lexus or Honda one.
Porsche knows what they're doing. Not sure how long their franchise agreements are for, but it's not like Porsche can just demand a million dollar + remodel just like that. It's part of renewing a franchise agreement for a specified timeframe.
It makes people feel more special writing checks in a fancy dealership. How many Gucci purses could you sell at full retail at Walmart?
How is this an excuse for shenanigans played by dealers who don't value their loyal clientele?
This is all pretty obvious wouldn't you say? You are speaking like they were selling these cars in existing dealerships that were basically so bad they needed to be bulldozed? Far from it.....I was on a trip 3 years ago and visited 40 stores in 3 months for business. Almost all were worlds better inside and out than any Honda or lexus store I have visited....ALL of them? No, but the handful that weren't hadn't even started on the previous facility requirement program remodel yet.
10-23-2015, 01:41 PM
