991RS Review thread
11-26-2015, 01:13 PM
#661
Race Director
At first I was interested in the comparison between the two but not really interested. I thought I saw the RS has the hard core track Car and the GT3 as more suitable for the street but now hearing the RS may be the better road car and now the track times to be so close it may just come down to tire and driver .
So- the difference for me is does one want the top of the line Porsche(latest and greatest) and are they willing to throw the extra money to get it. I do not think the Performance factor is the necessary justification.
I also think by Porsche limited to number of RS cars produced so it takes the focus off performance and now it becomes a mental masturbation of "I got to have one"- good marketing and they are learning from Ferrari. But, that does not make it a bad thing. All the (3) GT models are fabulous. A Manual and more affordable GT4; a 9000 rpm screamer, and the limited produced pinnacle(Goliath)of what Porsche has today which is still NA
So- the difference for me is does one want the top of the line Porsche(latest and greatest) and are they willing to throw the extra money to get it. I do not think the Performance factor is the necessary justification.
I also think by Porsche limited to number of RS cars produced so it takes the focus off performance and now it becomes a mental masturbation of "I got to have one"- good marketing and they are learning from Ferrari. But, that does not make it a bad thing. All the (3) GT models are fabulous. A Manual and more affordable GT4; a 9000 rpm screamer, and the limited produced pinnacle(Goliath)of what Porsche has today which is still NA
11-26-2015, 02:47 PM
#662
Once again, nothing concrete YET on the N0 vs N1 theory, this is just a hypotheses made by rennlisters because 1>0..
Some of you make it seem as a shock or total surprise that the RS is faster, and when it in fact is, whether by a second or 3 (hockenheim), you come up with excuses and explanations..
The RS has more tire, wider track, more aero, more torque, that is enough to justify the delta on track. Yes, the delta is not as big as 4 or 5 seconds because already improving over the GT3 is a big challenge given how amazing and competent it already is..
Unfortunately that is the case of many of the 3 owners, trying to prove to themselves that the 3 is just as fast, and that they don't need it! And not so many RS owners are here to argue with me..
I don't mean to offend anyone, but give it a break!
both cars are amazing, each better than the other in some way..
I remember reading GMG's review on the RS, and how amazed they were by the car on track!
Some of you make it seem as a shock or total surprise that the RS is faster, and when it in fact is, whether by a second or 3 (hockenheim), you come up with excuses and explanations..
The RS has more tire, wider track, more aero, more torque, that is enough to justify the delta on track. Yes, the delta is not as big as 4 or 5 seconds because already improving over the GT3 is a big challenge given how amazing and competent it already is..
Unfortunately that is the case of many of the 3 owners, trying to prove to themselves that the 3 is just as fast, and that they don't need it! And not so many RS owners are here to argue with me..
I don't mean to offend anyone, but give it a break!
both cars are amazing, each better than the other in some way..I remember reading GMG's review on the RS, and how amazed they were by the car on track!
11-26-2015, 04:15 PM
#663
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As far as bias, probably just as likely for RS owners to want to elevate it over the GT3, as it is for GT3 owners wanting to narrow the gap between the cars. But the difference in lap times between the two cars is an objective difference and many of us are simply interested in knowing what that difference is, controlling for variables like tires, driver, track, etc.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
11-27-2015, 02:18 AM
#664
Rennlist Member
I cut and pasted the N0 vs N1 tyre comments from the online article on another thread here. They were quite specific about the N1 being an improved compound faster in dry more stable in wet. As far as I know all RS were delivered in the N1 compound. I asked Peter (TRAKCAR) and I think Chris who was with him on his ED stayed N1. Michelin Euro site lists the tyre as "new arrival" in GT3 sizes on their site but I'm yet to see the tire for sale in US. I guess it could be a while to know how much quicker it is on GT3 if at all. Only thing holding back both cars is tires. We run Hankooks Z221 down here as dot rated in our older GT3 and they are over 0.5s lap on 1.6 mile track quicker than same car and driver on Tropheos. If they made them in 991 GT3 size they would be almost 2s faster a lap over MPSC2 I'm sure. If the demand is there they will make them, but I suspect in 20" may take a while and 21" longer...
12-05-2015, 04:14 PM
#667
Race Car
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12-06-2015, 08:00 AM
#669
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Spoke to a very experienced pro Porsche race car driver who happens to personally own a 991 GT3 and according to him he says he can clearly feel the difference between the GT3 and RS on a track environment.
He told me that around the corners at high speeds he can notice the extra grip that the RS has while the GT3 on same turns starts to feel light and loose.
He says on normal street driving the differences are not possible to notice and it really can only be felt on a track where the 2 cars are pushed to its limit. He told me you can also feel the differences in aero between the RS and the GT3 where the RS feels more planted due to the big wing and fender vents.
Keep in mind he drove both the GT3 and RS on same track same day several times that day to be able to objectively see what differences he could feel if any.
I myself used to own a 991 GT3 last year and I don't feel the power is any different around the street although I am still in break in mode with my RS.
I think for most RS owners they won't ever realize or explore the limits of the RS on the track and they will not be able to tell the delta between the GT3 since most owners probably will never track the RS due to resale and high replacement costs etc..
I myself will admit I recently bought my GT4 to punish around the track and I don't have any immediate plans to track my RS.
Hope that helps.
He told me that around the corners at high speeds he can notice the extra grip that the RS has while the GT3 on same turns starts to feel light and loose.
He says on normal street driving the differences are not possible to notice and it really can only be felt on a track where the 2 cars are pushed to its limit. He told me you can also feel the differences in aero between the RS and the GT3 where the RS feels more planted due to the big wing and fender vents.
Keep in mind he drove both the GT3 and RS on same track same day several times that day to be able to objectively see what differences he could feel if any.
I myself used to own a 991 GT3 last year and I don't feel the power is any different around the street although I am still in break in mode with my RS.
I think for most RS owners they won't ever realize or explore the limits of the RS on the track and they will not be able to tell the delta between the GT3 since most owners probably will never track the RS due to resale and high replacement costs etc..
I myself will admit I recently bought my GT4 to punish around the track and I don't have any immediate plans to track my RS.
Hope that helps.
12-06-2015, 09:59 AM
#670
I'm not fast enough to explore the last few seconds of these cars. So from that perspective it doesn't matter what car I drive on track. Just comes down to if you like the RS more than the gt3! And if you can get an RS. Been spending quite a bit of time in the right seat with some amazing pro drivers. We all think we are good until you get to go with a pro.
12-07-2015, 08:48 PM
#671
Rennlist Member
Sure, I agree but I can tell you that you don't need to be anywhere near pro level to sit in between other mediocre hobby drovers to see grip and downforce make RS faster, in fast and slow corners. I thought more stable at first, but that's just a function on not having to push as hard as in the GT3 you are following.. I couldn't keep up with better drivens or more familiar at new to me tracks GT3's but still clear in corners the RS just had more in it.
Straight about the same where only on lower revs corner exit the torque wins, but that's rarely the case with PDK S.
Straight about the same where only on lower revs corner exit the torque wins, but that's rarely the case with PDK S.
12-12-2015, 10:06 AM
#673
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I wonder if his issues with rear traction are related to the unusual amount of forward pitch in the RS chassis. Racing 911's right up to latest Cup cars run very low rear ride heights to maximize traction.
Porsche would've done the trade off analysis to fit those big wheels but still interesting how different the RS pitch is relative to all GT3's that have come before it.
This is what proper front/rear rake looks like on my Cup:
.
Porsche would've done the trade off analysis to fit those big wheels but still interesting how different the RS pitch is relative to all GT3's that have come before it.
This is what proper front/rear rake looks like on my Cup:
.
Last edited by Nizer; 12-13-2015 at 12:20 PM.
12-12-2015, 11:17 PM
#674
Rennlist Member
One can set up these cars to look "right" but the moment one brings it close to factory ride height and corner balance, the "attitude" seems to pitch slightly nose-up...
12-13-2015, 08:57 AM
#675
I'm no physicist, but wouldn't the addition of more wing in the back increase rear grip? I was always under the impression that front end traction suffered if you added more rear wing angle due to an imbalance, provided that there's no adjustable front aero. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, as I know it takes time to fine tune the aerodynamics of a car.