1st time CL change
12-31-2014, 09:33 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Forgive my ignorance here but what do you do at the track? i have only completed a few tracks events so far (c63 amg and 991S) and routinely check the torque on the wheels throughout the event. To check the torque on the GT3 it sounds like you have to jack the car and have some apply the brakes for each wheel?
12-31-2014, 09:36 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
12-31-2014, 11:03 AM
#33
Well, as they say 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.
So, if the wheel doesn't fall off - well done!
Personally, I would never attempt this using just a floor jack. They make jack stands for a reason.
So, if the wheel doesn't fall off - well done!
Personally, I would never attempt this using just a floor jack. They make jack stands for a reason.
12-31-2014, 01:09 PM
#34
12-31-2014, 01:34 PM
#36
Race Director
Thread Starter
Even the workshop docs refer to either lifting the entire car or alternatively, raising just the wheel you want to work on. It's impractical (or at least a PITA) to use the jack stands with one wheel as in order to get the car lifted far enough to clear the stand at least one other wheel ends up off the ground and you need to place multiple stands. I needed 1 inch of clearance to clear one wheel, the car was secured from rolling, and I wasn't going to be under it.
I get your point. I'll just say that the car was completely stable; no movement at any time while breaking the wheel free or re-torqueing.
Forgive my ignorance here but what do you do at the track? i have only completed a few tracks events so far (c63 amg and 991S) and routinely check the torque on the wheels throughout the event. To check the torque on the GT3 it sounds like you have to jack the car and have some apply the brakes for each wheel?
12-31-2014, 02:04 PM
#37
Pro
Good work.. look forward to trying it myself..
I have one niggling question about torque wrenches and breaker bars though: I have always just reversed my torque wrench, set it to some high torque, and used that to undo the nuts. It's apparently bad for the wrench to do this (hence the use of breaker bars). I don't understand why though - if insufficient torque is applied to even make it click, how does this differ from the forces used to do them up? I can see why non-reversible wrenches might be a problem, or pushing hard after it has clicked, but if you're not even applying the selected torque? Can anyone enlighten me?
I have one niggling question about torque wrenches and breaker bars though: I have always just reversed my torque wrench, set it to some high torque, and used that to undo the nuts. It's apparently bad for the wrench to do this (hence the use of breaker bars). I don't understand why though - if insufficient torque is applied to even make it click, how does this differ from the forces used to do them up? I can see why non-reversible wrenches might be a problem, or pushing hard after it has clicked, but if you're not even applying the selected torque? Can anyone enlighten me?
12-31-2014, 02:07 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
"If the wheel doesn't fall off".......I appreciate your note of optimism Bill!
Even the workshop docs refer to either lifting the entire car or alternatively, raising just the wheel you want to work on. It's impractical (or at least a PITA) to use the jack stands with one wheel as in order to get the car lifted far enough to clear the stand at least one other wheel ends up off the ground and you need to place multiple stands. I needed 1 inch of clearance to clear one wheel, the car was secured from rolling, and I wasn't going to be under it.
I get your point. I'll just say that the car was completely stable; no movement at any time while breaking the wheel free or re-torqueing.
Yes, and that's apparently part of the reason people who do this operation at the track have understandable heartburn with the CL's.
Even the workshop docs refer to either lifting the entire car or alternatively, raising just the wheel you want to work on. It's impractical (or at least a PITA) to use the jack stands with one wheel as in order to get the car lifted far enough to clear the stand at least one other wheel ends up off the ground and you need to place multiple stands. I needed 1 inch of clearance to clear one wheel, the car was secured from rolling, and I wasn't going to be under it.
I get your point. I'll just say that the car was completely stable; no movement at any time while breaking the wheel free or re-torqueing.
Yes, and that's apparently part of the reason people who do this operation at the track have understandable heartburn with the CL's.
Mike, any general feedback [or anybody for that matter] regarding my earlier post #27?
12-31-2014, 07:07 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Torque - 440 - 444 ft lbs
Optimol Grease - It is not needed each time the wheel is removed. If installing new wheels then a thin coat should be applied to the CL seat of the wheel and the CL itself. If doing a general inspection or service on brakes/rotors/suspension requiring the wheel to be removed then inspect the grease and only reapply if the surface appears DRY or CONTAMINATED. They suggested the nut be broken down and inspected each new set of tires as a good rule.
Torque / Back Off / Re-torque - Back off 60 degrees or 1/4 turn then re-torque.
Center lock safety - Just to reiterate, ALWAYS BE CERTAIN it is near flush with the CL before putting the cap on.
Most of this of course we already knew, but for those of us that have yet to do a CL change, you can't hear it enough. Looking forward to this weekends CL change!
12-31-2014, 08:09 PM
#40
Race Director
Thread Starter
Picked these up today and talked for a bit with boys in the know. They said sure, you can break the nut on the ground but they see no real reason to as they felt the weight of the car helping was really a non benefit. Car must be suspended for torque. Pump the brakes good and use a helper or a device to depress the pedal. They like to do it with the car running when possible so the boost gives the brakes ample pressure. In regards to:
Torque - 440 - 444 ft lbs
Optimol Grease - It is not needed each time the wheel is removed. If installing new wheels then a thin coat should be applied to the CL seat of the wheel and the CL itself. If doing a general inspection or service on brakes/rotors/suspension requiring the wheel to be removed then inspect the grease and only reapply if the surface appears DRY or CONTAMINATED. They suggested the nut be broken down and inspected each new set of tires as a good rule.
Torque / Back Off / Re-torque - Back off 60 degrees or 1/4 turn then re-torque.
Center lock safety - Just to reiterate, ALWAYS BE CERTAIN it is near flush with the CL before putting the cap on.
Most of this of course we already knew, but for those of us that have yet to do a CL change, you can't hear it enough. Looking forward to this weekends CL change!
Torque - 440 - 444 ft lbs
Optimol Grease - It is not needed each time the wheel is removed. If installing new wheels then a thin coat should be applied to the CL seat of the wheel and the CL itself. If doing a general inspection or service on brakes/rotors/suspension requiring the wheel to be removed then inspect the grease and only reapply if the surface appears DRY or CONTAMINATED. They suggested the nut be broken down and inspected each new set of tires as a good rule.
Torque / Back Off / Re-torque - Back off 60 degrees or 1/4 turn then re-torque.
Center lock safety - Just to reiterate, ALWAYS BE CERTAIN it is near flush with the CL before putting the cap on.
Most of this of course we already knew, but for those of us that have yet to do a CL change, you can't hear it enough. Looking forward to this weekends CL change!
Great looking wheels. I love those....
Last edited by Mike in CA; 12-31-2014 at 10:01 PM. Reason: typo
12-31-2014, 08:31 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Forgive my ignorance here but what do you do at the track? i have only completed a few tracks events so far (c63 amg and 991S) and routinely check the torque on the wheels throughout the event. To check the torque on the GT3 it sounds like you have to jack the car and have some apply the brakes for each wheel?
PS - Mike - thanks for sharing your experiences, again.
12-31-2014, 08:31 PM
#42
Race Director
If you jack the car from the rear jack point (just in front of the rear tire) the whole side of the car lifts up. I use a rather large aluminum floor jack...not the small $99 versions so many use. I still will not take a wheel off with just a floor jack as support. If I'm just swiping wheels at the track I will jack from rear point and put a jack stand at the front point. If I am bleeding bakes, swapping brake pads and so forth I put the car up on all 4 jacks and no floor jack support. This requires 4 jack stands and 2 floor jacks.
I have a question about loosening or tightening the centre wheel lock with the wheels off the ground (and possibly having somebody or a tool pressing on the brakes).
Is a floor jack strong enough to keep the car up while you tighten or loosen these centre wheel locks given the very high torque required? And add to that the possible need for somebody to physically step on the brake pedal at the same time (if you don't have that special tool to press on the brake pedal)?
Is there any danger of a floor jack not being strong enough to keep the car up with all those forces acting on the car?.......or am I completely off base here?
I routinely change tires with a floor jack alone, without jack stands.......but that is with standard 5 lug wheels on my other cars and I torque the lugs with the wheels on the ground in a star pattern.
Is a floor jack strong enough to keep the car up while you tighten or loosen these centre wheel locks given the very high torque required? And add to that the possible need for somebody to physically step on the brake pedal at the same time (if you don't have that special tool to press on the brake pedal)?
Is there any danger of a floor jack not being strong enough to keep the car up with all those forces acting on the car?.......or am I completely off base here?
I routinely change tires with a floor jack alone, without jack stands.......but that is with standard 5 lug wheels on my other cars and I torque the lugs with the wheels on the ground in a star pattern.
12-31-2014, 08:36 PM
#43
Race Director
Strimdog...OZ Challange wheels...great track wheels by the way. I've been using the 18" version seen below in my sig pic for 2 years. A lot of guys use them at the track and they are the best bang for the buck for high end cast wheels. If not OZ I would be move up to forged wheels and be using Forgeline or HRE or BBS Forged. The GMG wheels are great too.
