non PTS paint problem, roof also
12-11-2014, 11:29 PM
#32
Race Director
The OP thinks it's different on the roof of his vehicle: With regards to the rest, Nate, I am still having problems with what your wrote and I'll try to explain carefully why I feel that way! Understand you think you are trying to help Nate...but I personally don't think PAG or PCNA would tell any of us straight up that 'PAG has changed the clear they're using and it seems to tie up with customers experience with QC problems.' So this is not coming from official sources. The rest of your statement was indeed conjecture: 'The speculation is that they're pushing cars out of the factory and applying shipping film too early!'. There is nothing new here. PeteyDaddy on his 'Maritime Blue' gt3 and Tpup on his 'Aqua Blue' gt3 discussed these issues with us at Rennlist. But notice that 911dev had similar experiences years ago with a previous (non-991) Porsche. Furthermore, we really don't yet know if 'dark knight' issue came from the shipping film on his car's roof. In fact, I was under the impression that 'dark knight' was based in Europe with our US Armed Forces or a Defense Contractor. He might have picked up his Porsche at Zuffenhausen without ever been touched or wrap in shipping film. We still don't yet know that important fact. That is why I asked him earlier if he was based in Germany and I hope he can help us with this bit of important information ASAP. In fact, we (at least I) don't know what type of 911 'dark knight' owns - or how old it is, when it was delivered, etc? I think these paint issues that have recently come up (we have heard mostly of these two PTS gt3's and now dark knight's Porsche) are serious problems which could negatively impact on the reputation of Porsche. I believe that we need to be cautious in what is posted to insure we don't damage unintentionally the marque. I don't think we know enough about what is going on with these paint issues to pontificate. And until we have reliable sources that can be named & quoted, I don't find that constructive passing on information from sources you can't identify or named on this forum and which leaves us unable to judge as how knowledgeable or reliable they might be. My dos centavos, for what it's worth. Saludos, Eduardo Carmel .
To quote:
"Understand you think you are trying to help Nate...but I personally don't think PAG or PCNA would tell any of us straight up that 'PAG has changed the clear they're using and it seems to tie up with customers experience with QC problems.' So this is not coming from official sources."
I suppose it is important to get more info on this specific case and the others.
You are correct that Porsche would NEVER put out a statement announcing screw ups. The way info like this does come out or "leak" out is from people familiar with the situation. The only thing we can go on is by speculation and putting the pieces of the puzzle together correct?
There will always be resprays and corrections at the factory. That has and always will happen. The more concerning thing is that it's showing up after they leave the factory. Either they missed it there, or the problem is manifesting itself after the initial inspections.
The fact is that there is evidence from the PTS cut off and cars showing up flawed that there indeed seem to be SOME SORT of issue going on and very unhappy customers who unfortunately aren't being taken care of in the case of Aqua Blue.
12-11-2014, 11:34 PM
#33
Race Director
By they way, they've managed to get enough bad press with the rest of the problems that couldn't be covered up. They will at all costs try and avoid any more bad press.
I don't think random forum posts will do anything to hurt Porsche. They don't seem very interested in addressing any problems that get posted.
Dealers and the PCNA crew seem to dismiss forum posts as Internet chatter and folklore stories. Look at the whole stumble issue!
I don't think random forum posts will do anything to hurt Porsche. They don't seem very interested in addressing any problems that get posted.
Dealers and the PCNA crew seem to dismiss forum posts as Internet chatter and folklore stories. Look at the whole stumble issue!
12-12-2014, 01:38 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The OP thinks it's different on the roof of his vehicle:
Furthermore, we really don't yet know if 'dark knight' issue came from the shipping film on his car's roof. In fact, I was under the impression that 'dark knight' was based in Europe with our US Armed Forces or a Defense Contractor. He might have picked up his Porsche at Zuffenhausen without ever been touched or wrap in shipping film. We still don't yet know that important fact. That is why I asked him earlier if he was based in Germany and I hope he can help us with this bit of important information ASAP. In fact, we (at least I) don't know what type of 911 'dark knight' owns - or how old it is, when it was delivered, etc?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Furthermore, we really don't yet know if 'dark knight' issue came from the shipping film on his car's roof. In fact, I was under the impression that 'dark knight' was based in Europe with our US Armed Forces or a Defense Contractor. He might have picked up his Porsche at Zuffenhausen without ever been touched or wrap in shipping film. We still don't yet know that important fact. That is why I asked him earlier if he was based in Germany and I hope he can help us with this bit of important information ASAP. In fact, we (at least I) don't know what type of 911 'dark knight' owns - or how old it is, when it was delivered, etc?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
12-12-2014, 03:35 PM
#37
https://www.academi.com
Just kidding, Im a boring guy here in the USA, I picked up my GT3 in July at the factory, then upon its arrival home in August I realized I didn't like the satellite antenna so (sounds crazy but true) I gave up Howard Stern and ordered a new 991 GT3 which I picked up last week. (now Im wondering if I should've just kept my original car, oh well) The car was covered with plastic when I got her and was not detailed per my request, the paint discoloration is not a surface stain, its in the paint. The white plastic on has a pretty sticky adhesive on the roof and hood pieces , the plastic on the sides is less tacky and rigid, from the tags I believe my car may have been painted Oct 31
Finally, let us know how your dealer and PCNA handles the paint issues on the roof panel on your new 991 gt3! And thank you encouraging us all to support our troops!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*That's sarcasm!
.
12-13-2014, 02:32 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Eduardo, thanks for the reply, the ED car was not wrapped in vinyl for shipping to the US, its paint was perfect. The covering on the roof and hood was much stickier and that vinyl appeared thicker and less "porous" than whats on the sides, I can understand how given its tackiness the hoods and roof could get clearcoat problems, Im hoping with time and sunlight it will fade out, I went to Germany twice this year because in July i saw no GT3s on assembly line, I wanted to see that, and next year if I go to IAA its too close to sound nacho to go back (I hate traveling) can't type any more toning, Im ill, malaise myalgias, headache, I think Im sick
12-14-2014, 09:53 AM
#39
I used a flashlight to bring out the contrast. All-in-all, I found 3 spots, 2 that were spherical with about 2.5" in diameter, both on c pillars. (Both sides) The third blemish is on the driver's door, oval, and measures approximately 6"x4".
After closer inspection, I agree with Dark Knight, this is not superficial. Moreover, there is no 'texture' to the spots. However, it's a definite blemish.
I also followed the advice and contacted the dealer. They said they hadn't heard about the issue but it's also only surfacing here. I'll be bringing the car in next week for them to take a look at the issue. I'll report on the findings at that time. Until then, I'll leave things alone...
12-14-2014, 09:32 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
yep thats it, heres my hypothesis, during the hand finishing stage of the body where some high spots are sanded, someone used something incompatible with the primer layer, or after priming an incompatible substance was used, then color was shot, it reacted was cleared and the blemish shows after dried completely , its almost invisible outside but show in fluorescent light arrghhhhh
12-14-2014, 09:50 PM
#41
Race Director
Photography is definitely not in my future... I took about 10 pics, all of them horrible. Here's perhaps the least bad of them all. (I also put a couple others that are more pleasing while I was at it... but don't help at all w/ the paint issue.) I used a flashlight to bring out the contrast. All-in-all, I found 3 spots, 2 that were spherical with about 2.5" in diameter, both on c pillars. (Both sides) The third blemish is on the driver's door, oval, and measures approximately 6"x4". After closer inspection, I agree with Dark Knight, this is not superficial. Moreover, there is no 'texture' to the spots. However, it's a definite blemish. I also followed the advice and contacted the dealer. They said they hadn't heard about the issue but it's also only surfacing here. I'll be bringing the car in next week for them to take a look at the issue. I'll report on the findings at that time. Until then, I'll leave things alone...
My guess, an issue with the clear coat curing. There is no way that would have passed inspection.
These must be presenting themselves after they are wrapped. I'm guessing because the clear is still curing.
** all my assumptions of course.
12-14-2014, 09:57 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
^^ Mine only showed under fluorescent too. Even though it looked like it was under the clear coat, it was not and was removed with only light buffing with a rotary and very fine "material". I don't now what compound was used. It's perfect now. Allan
12-15-2014, 01:06 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
i would hope that could solve the problem, but its a discoloration in the color, the surface is smooth and unmarred
12-15-2014, 01:34 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
No paint job is ever 100% perfect.
It looks to me like marks from a polish wheel, probably used at the factory or during dealer prep. The surface can be smooth and unmarred and the microscratches would show exactly as you describe under flourescent light, as a discoloration. It has to do with how those scratches scatter light.
Your dealer should be able to source an expert detailer who can correct the imperfection and the surrounding area. I'd start there and if they see further reason for concern, you can address with PCNA.
Good luck!
It looks to me like marks from a polish wheel, probably used at the factory or during dealer prep. The surface can be smooth and unmarred and the microscratches would show exactly as you describe under flourescent light, as a discoloration. It has to do with how those scratches scatter light.
Your dealer should be able to source an expert detailer who can correct the imperfection and the surrounding area. I'd start there and if they see further reason for concern, you can address with PCNA.
Good luck!
12-19-2014, 11:06 PM
#45
I went to the dealer today and met with the service manager. We looked at the blemishes with a flashlight. He said he'd not seen this before and hadn't heard about it.
He will arrange a review with the Porsche rep in January. However, he indicated that it looked like it might be below the clear coat, which would mean repainting the car to correct the situation.
I'm not doing that.
He suggested I try polishing one of the spots as I was originally going to do. He said not to overdo it but to see if it seem to help. That will clarify the depth and then we can discuss the matter with the rep in January.
We're no further ahead but they seem to be taking it seriously.
He will arrange a review with the Porsche rep in January. However, he indicated that it looked like it might be below the clear coat, which would mean repainting the car to correct the situation.
I'm not doing that.
He suggested I try polishing one of the spots as I was originally going to do. He said not to overdo it but to see if it seem to help. That will clarify the depth and then we can discuss the matter with the rep in January.
We're no further ahead but they seem to be taking it seriously.