Saw my first 991 GT3 this weekend at WGI
08-26-2014, 12:43 AM
#46
Drifting
Personally, I wouldn't use the Hoosier R6 on a 911, especially a powerful one. Have heard of or myself seen too many incidents where the tire failed, sometimes catastrophically. Combined stresses due to high lateral load, high vertical load in rear of the car, and high torque appears to cause various modes of tire failure. Similar things can happen with any tire (so inspect them carefully before every session), but failure rate for the R6 seems significantly higher than average.
08-26-2014, 01:10 AM
#47
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est8esq is running newly fitted R6 on 19" alloys (they clear RWS gear). We are awaiting feedback from him on his experience with these on teh track over the weekend...Youll need to use the thread search function as I cant find the posts but they are on one of our track oriented threads...
08-26-2014, 09:17 AM
#48
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You might be interested in the suspension review from Elephant Racing. According to the Elephant Bart there is already a lot of Cup car in the 991 GT3:
"While the GT3 is sitting here in the shop waiting for a new motor, we've snapped few pictures of the suspension and made a 991 GT3 suspension overview. This beast is more of a GT3 Cup than 991.
We've noted major differences between the previous generations of GT3 cars and the current generation of regular 991 cars."
His full review is here:
http://www.elephantracing.com/tool-b...n-overview.htm
"While the GT3 is sitting here in the shop waiting for a new motor, we've snapped few pictures of the suspension and made a 991 GT3 suspension overview. This beast is more of a GT3 Cup than 991.
We've noted major differences between the previous generations of GT3 cars and the current generation of regular 991 cars."
His full review is here:
http://www.elephantracing.com/tool-b...n-overview.htm
Given that I've pretty much decided to buy the car if/when I get an allocation, I really hope the suspension works well with stickier tires, since the damping can't be adjusted and I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig to mess with spring rates (nor change the dampers).
08-26-2014, 12:37 PM
#49
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Hey guys, Ivan directed me to this thread - I was his co-driver this weekend.
On lap times - I happened to take a few videos with my cell phone on Sunday. I've been looking through them this morning and timed a few laps at around 2m12s. Considering this was my first time in this car and first time at WGI I am happy with that, but definitely feel there is more than a few seconds left in the car.
I agree with Ivan on all his points - the power in the car was very surprising, especially out of the toe of the boot, the turn-in was sharp and the car didn't push at all that I could tell while under power and tracking out. For the PDK-S issue - again, can't be compared to standard PDK, but I will say in a few instances it drops down when I would have preferred it stayed up, but once I got used to it I would preempt the shift and manually change for that particular turn - BUT if I forgot, the change is not enough to unsettle the car it's just more of a feel thing where you need to be a little more delicate on the throttle when it does shift down. Also, as a huge fan of manual cars I will say that for the whole three days I never though about changing the gears with the paddles for an entire lap which was very surprising to me, I was expecting to want to play around with the paddle shifting, but the car did such a good job I quickly forgot about it when I hit the track.
I can't upload videos from the office, so if I get a chance I'll upload one tonight.
On lap times - I happened to take a few videos with my cell phone on Sunday. I've been looking through them this morning and timed a few laps at around 2m12s. Considering this was my first time in this car and first time at WGI I am happy with that, but definitely feel there is more than a few seconds left in the car.
I agree with Ivan on all his points - the power in the car was very surprising, especially out of the toe of the boot, the turn-in was sharp and the car didn't push at all that I could tell while under power and tracking out. For the PDK-S issue - again, can't be compared to standard PDK, but I will say in a few instances it drops down when I would have preferred it stayed up, but once I got used to it I would preempt the shift and manually change for that particular turn - BUT if I forgot, the change is not enough to unsettle the car it's just more of a feel thing where you need to be a little more delicate on the throttle when it does shift down. Also, as a huge fan of manual cars I will say that for the whole three days I never though about changing the gears with the paddles for an entire lap which was very surprising to me, I was expecting to want to play around with the paddle shifting, but the car did such a good job I quickly forgot about it when I hit the track.
I can't upload videos from the office, so if I get a chance I'll upload one tonight.
08-26-2014, 12:46 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
My Recaro seats were installed by Jerry Pelligrino at EPE here in Massachusetts. When he installed the seats in my 2012 GTS several years ago, he was able to eliminate one (or several?) airbag warning messages by changing some ECU codes.
For the GT3, Jerry said that he was not able to clear the warning that was triggered by the removal on the passenger seat weight detector. He said that to get around that problem he had to reinstall the passenger seat weight detector onto the Recaro seat. I don't know how hard that was, but it works fine!
Let me know if you have any other questions.
For the GT3, Jerry said that he was not able to clear the warning that was triggered by the removal on the passenger seat weight detector. He said that to get around that problem he had to reinstall the passenger seat weight detector onto the Recaro seat. I don't know how hard that was, but it works fine!
Let me know if you have any other questions.
What did the Recaro's cost and the approximate cost for installation?
08-26-2014, 02:49 PM
#51
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On thinking some more about the apparent straight line speed differences between his car and mine (997.1 GT3), you have to consider more than just peak horsepower. Acceleration is all about the torque the car delivers to the rear wheels. In addition to the crankshaft torque specs on paper (325 ft-lb vs. 300 ft-lb for the two cars) you have to look at the engine torque curves and gearing. On my car the torque starts to drop off above 7000 rpm IIRC. Allthough I haven't seen the 991 GT3 torque profile, I'm willing to bet it maintains its torque better in the upper rpm's. Furthermore the 7 speed PDK transmission gives you an extra gear to keep you in the sweet spot of the torque curve. All this may explain why the 991 GT3 is so damn fast (in a straight line).
08-26-2014, 11:24 PM
#52
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Alright guys, here is a short video of one of my laps in the last session on Sunday. Sorry about the orientation, one of my more aggressive trips through the bus stop took its toll on the mount.
The lap is just over 2m11s with me slowing down a bit for a slower car in the toe of the boot - but you get to hear it drop into second which is nice. Otherwise, also note the change into third in the last turn - doesn't upset the car at all.
EDIT: I also used youtube stabilization, I don't love it, but the video is pretty shaky without it.
The lap is just over 2m11s with me slowing down a bit for a slower car in the toe of the boot - but you get to hear it drop into second which is nice. Otherwise, also note the change into third in the last turn - doesn't upset the car at all.
EDIT: I also used youtube stabilization, I don't love it, but the video is pretty shaky without it.
08-26-2014, 11:31 PM
#53
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Coming out of the toe of the boot was one of the places were Ivan caught me, just at the crest of the hill. Right after he passed me, I went full throttle trying to stay with him but by the braking zone, he was already bus lengths ahead of me.
On thinking some more about the apparent straight line speed differences between his car and mine (997.1 GT3), you have to consider more than just peak horsepower. Acceleration is all about the torque the car delivers to the rear wheels. In addition to the crankshaft torque specs on paper (325 ft-lb vs. 300 ft-lb for the two cars) you have to look at the engine torque curves and gearing. On my car the torque starts to drop off above 7000 rpm IIRC. Allthough I haven't seen the 991 GT3 torque profile, I'm willing to bet it maintains its torque better in the upper rpm's. Furthermore the 7 speed PDK transmission gives you an extra gear to keep you in the sweet spot of the torque curve. All this may explain why the 991 GT3 is so damn fast (in a straight line).
On thinking some more about the apparent straight line speed differences between his car and mine (997.1 GT3), you have to consider more than just peak horsepower. Acceleration is all about the torque the car delivers to the rear wheels. In addition to the crankshaft torque specs on paper (325 ft-lb vs. 300 ft-lb for the two cars) you have to look at the engine torque curves and gearing. On my car the torque starts to drop off above 7000 rpm IIRC. Allthough I haven't seen the 991 GT3 torque profile, I'm willing to bet it maintains its torque better in the upper rpm's. Furthermore the 7 speed PDK transmission gives you an extra gear to keep you in the sweet spot of the torque curve. All this may explain why the 991 GT3 is so damn fast (in a straight line).
I also reckon he may have had a bit more traction at corner exit simply due to the newer chassis.
08-27-2014, 12:12 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Hey guys, Ivan directed me to this thread - I was his co-driver this weekend.
On lap times - I happened to take a few videos with my cell phone on Sunday. I've been looking through them this morning and timed a few laps at around 2m12s. Considering this was my first time in this car and first time at WGI I am happy with that, but definitely feel there is more than a few seconds left in the car.
I agree with Ivan on all his points - the power in the car was very surprising, especially out of the toe of the boot, the turn-in was sharp and the car didn't push at all that I could tell while under power and tracking out. For the PDK-S issue - again, can't be compared to standard PDK, but I will say in a few instances it drops down when I would have preferred it stayed up, but once I got used to it I would preempt the shift and manually change for that particular turn - BUT if I forgot, the change is not enough to unsettle the car it's just more of a feel thing where you need to be a little more delicate on the throttle when it does shift down. Also, as a huge fan of manual cars I will say that for the whole three days I never though about changing the gears with the paddles for an entire lap which was very surprising to me, I was expecting to want to play around with the paddle shifting, but the car did such a good job I quickly forgot about it when I hit the track.
I can't upload videos from the office, so if I get a chance I'll upload one tonight.
On lap times - I happened to take a few videos with my cell phone on Sunday. I've been looking through them this morning and timed a few laps at around 2m12s. Considering this was my first time in this car and first time at WGI I am happy with that, but definitely feel there is more than a few seconds left in the car.
I agree with Ivan on all his points - the power in the car was very surprising, especially out of the toe of the boot, the turn-in was sharp and the car didn't push at all that I could tell while under power and tracking out. For the PDK-S issue - again, can't be compared to standard PDK, but I will say in a few instances it drops down when I would have preferred it stayed up, but once I got used to it I would preempt the shift and manually change for that particular turn - BUT if I forgot, the change is not enough to unsettle the car it's just more of a feel thing where you need to be a little more delicate on the throttle when it does shift down. Also, as a huge fan of manual cars I will say that for the whole three days I never though about changing the gears with the paddles for an entire lap which was very surprising to me, I was expecting to want to play around with the paddle shifting, but the car did such a good job I quickly forgot about it when I hit the track.
I can't upload videos from the office, so if I get a chance I'll upload one tonight.
08-27-2014, 12:51 AM
#55
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OK, that's just fast.
Race trim very well driven 997RS on slicks is 2:05..
I've been there only one day ever and on Toyo RA1 I did 2:10+ with max 2/3 seconds left to find had I more time... Need to go back ASAP
WG = unfinished business..
Race trim very well driven 997RS on slicks is 2:05..
I've been there only one day ever and on Toyo RA1 I did 2:10+ with max 2/3 seconds left to find had I more time... Need to go back ASAP
WG = unfinished business..
08-27-2014, 02:08 AM
#56
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What you are seeing in the video is the driving of a driver that had only three days of solo experience as a Blue driver, and no prior experience at the Glen. Incredible! Instructors noticed, and promoted him to White.
08-27-2014, 02:31 AM
#57
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Labor total was 25 hours, including installation of all of the above plus installation of CAN wiring for the AiM SoloDL plus track alignment plus track inspection.
08-27-2014, 06:44 AM
#60
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Personally, I wouldn't use the Hoosier R6 on a 911, especially a powerful one. Have heard of or myself seen too many incidents where the tire failed, sometimes catastrophically. Combined stresses due to high lateral load, high vertical load in rear of the car, and high torque appears to cause various modes of tire failure. Similar things can happen with any tire (so inspect them carefully before every session), but failure rate for the R6 seems significantly higher than average.