View Poll Results: Keep or Opt for the Buy-Out
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll
Keep the Car or opt for the Buy-Out?
05-18-2014, 06:51 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Hi guys:
I checked today in Germany on the PAG used car site. 3 used GT3s are available at dealers (two white, one black btw). On of the cars has only 120 km and the two others both a bit more than 3000 km on the clock. I did not (yet) check offered price vs sticker .... all this 3 cars are the not so desireable non Clubsport versions (nor roll cage, standard seats!!). So I doubt that they will flip soon. First I thought about calling to check them out but non Club sport is not interesting for me.....
On Mobile.de I found two used cars. One black with 700 km on the clock and expected availability date "mid of June" is offered for 140 k Euro - sticker was 152 k Euro. So 12 k below sticker. Even so the buyer might have got 5 % discount ons sticker so in reality it will be only 4.5 k below sticker....
Another one has only 40 km on the clock. Delivery date is said to be in 2 to 4 weeks. They offer this one more or less at sticker price.
So it seems that in Germany not so many cars have been returned or they have not yet shown up in the marked due to the fact that they do not yet have the new motor or the date is not yet clear. I will follow this up in the near future .....
On Monday I have a meeting at my dealers (general manager) and will see what they will offer. I am cat. C so I can walk without a lot of headache if offer is not satisfactory.
Take care and have a great Sunday
Peter
I checked today in Germany on the PAG used car site. 3 used GT3s are available at dealers (two white, one black btw). On of the cars has only 120 km and the two others both a bit more than 3000 km on the clock. I did not (yet) check offered price vs sticker .... all this 3 cars are the not so desireable non Clubsport versions (nor roll cage, standard seats!!). So I doubt that they will flip soon. First I thought about calling to check them out but non Club sport is not interesting for me.....
On Mobile.de I found two used cars. One black with 700 km on the clock and expected availability date "mid of June" is offered for 140 k Euro - sticker was 152 k Euro. So 12 k below sticker. Even so the buyer might have got 5 % discount ons sticker so in reality it will be only 4.5 k below sticker....
Another one has only 40 km on the clock. Delivery date is said to be in 2 to 4 weeks. They offer this one more or less at sticker price.
So it seems that in Germany not so many cars have been returned or they have not yet shown up in the marked due to the fact that they do not yet have the new motor or the date is not yet clear. I will follow this up in the near future .....
On Monday I have a meeting at my dealers (general manager) and will see what they will offer. I am cat. C so I can walk without a lot of headache if offer is not satisfactory.
Take care and have a great Sunday
Peter
05-18-2014, 09:44 AM
#17
Race Director
This is a very tough and personal decision. Porsche has failed in the Customer Service department and that can not be denied. I can see how some one who has ordered this car or had been a Cat A/B/C and will opt out for the reason above and many other justified ones', as well. I am not going to comment and try to convince them otherwise because I can fully understand the many reasons not to take this car. I am a Cat B but will take my car. I am also not going to list and justify all my reasons because there are just as many reasons to keep as there are not to. to each there own on this one.
05-18-2014, 12:46 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I loved the car but I now hate Porsche. The way they dealt with me, and all the GT3 owners, is a disgrace.
This was a particularly heart-breaking decision for me because until a couple of months ago, I was a big fan of the Porsche brand. This GT3 was my fourth Porsche. I have been treasurer, competition director and president of the Golden Gate Region of PCA; I have taught high speed driving to other Porsche owners at every track in California and Nevada (with the exception of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway); I have sent multiple referrals to my local dealer. This was all good fun while it lasted.
The last 90 days however have been a complete nightmare. I can understand technical issues and the reasons for a recall, these things happen. What shocked me though was the complete information blackout culminating with Porsche’s inability or unwillingness to tell me when my car will be repaired.
When they finally did I had lost patience and ordered another car (Jaguar F Type R)
This was a particularly heart-breaking decision for me because until a couple of months ago, I was a big fan of the Porsche brand. This GT3 was my fourth Porsche. I have been treasurer, competition director and president of the Golden Gate Region of PCA; I have taught high speed driving to other Porsche owners at every track in California and Nevada (with the exception of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway); I have sent multiple referrals to my local dealer. This was all good fun while it lasted.
The last 90 days however have been a complete nightmare. I can understand technical issues and the reasons for a recall, these things happen. What shocked me though was the complete information blackout culminating with Porsche’s inability or unwillingness to tell me when my car will be repaired.
When they finally did I had lost patience and ordered another car (Jaguar F Type R)
Loyalty is a two sided relationship. Porsche has acknowledged their screw up. At a minimum we need to be faithful to the company during this difficult time for them.
05-18-2014, 01:29 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
Given your long relationship with Porsche and Porsche cars, I am dumfounded that you would allow one unprecedented incident to sour your relationship with them. No doubt it has not been handled well but you must realize Porsche has not faced this situation before. They made mistakes but they also have taken many positive steps. Not many car companies would have done what they have done to try to make us whole.
Loyalty is a two sided relationship. Porsche has acknowledged their screw up. At a minimum we need to be faithful to the company during this difficult time for them.
Loyalty is a two sided relationship. Porsche has acknowledged their screw up. At a minimum we need to be faithful to the company during this difficult time for them.
Sometimes you just have to step back, remove the emotion, and look at the bigger picture objectively.
05-18-2014, 01:37 PM
#20
Race Director
. This same poll was done previously and got roughly similar results when the voting was anonymous. However, when it was repeated with names attached to the votes the vast majority of people who had actually taken possession of the car were keeping it. Among actual category A owners the vote was 19-4 in favor of keeping the car, and among voters in all categories it was 60-16 in favor of sticking with the car or placed orders.The point being, there are votes in this current poll from people who never bought the car, and the number of buybacks from actual owners will be small.
05-18-2014, 01:37 PM
#21
I hate to be redundant, but I will be anyway . This same poll was done previously and got roughly similar results when the voting was anonymous. However, when it was repeated with names attached to the votes the vast majority of people who had actually taken possession of the car were keeping it. The point being, there are votes here from people who never bought the car, and the number of buybacks from actual owners will be small.
. This same poll was done previously and got roughly similar results when the voting was anonymous. However, when it was repeated with names attached to the votes the vast majority of people who had actually taken possession of the car were keeping it. The point being, there are votes here from people who never bought the car, and the number of buybacks from actual owners will be small.
05-18-2014, 03:08 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
After seeing all the favorable Magazine and Video Reviews, and realizing that the 991 GT3 Production Run is likely to be lower than normal, and they will all be even better with new Engines, improved software and hardware, If I did not have a GT3, I’d be advising Owners to turn them in also - so I could buy one! But I do have one and there is no way I’m giving it back and take a chance on missing out on one of the best 911’s Porsche has ever built in their 50 year history.
Yes, they had a problem with 2 cars out of 785 Built, but that still gives them a 99.75% perfection rate - likely better than any other previous first year new model of ANY CAR. Yes, they did a HORRIBLE job of communicating with we owners and I’m disappointed and angry at those OMISSIONS.
But, in contrast with what BMW did on an identical problem we had with all 2012 S1000RR engines, they did not refuse our pleas for new engines and require their dealers, who had ZERO training, to disassemble our motorcycles and rebuild our engines using replacement parts.
But on the COMMISSION Side, Porsche redesigned and put into production new improved engines within an incredibly short time, spared no expense in Air-shipping those engines and training
personnel in their installation, provided loaner cars to affected owners, and arguably reasonable compensation. And Porsche did all that during a stressful period with resources stretched thin with the 918, Macan and new GT Models under design. IMHO, I’d cut them some slack, and still give them an A on the COMMISSION Side.
Yes, they had a problem with 2 cars out of 785 Built, but that still gives them a 99.75% perfection rate - likely better than any other previous first year new model of ANY CAR. Yes, they did a HORRIBLE job of communicating with we owners and I’m disappointed and angry at those OMISSIONS.
But, in contrast with what BMW did on an identical problem we had with all 2012 S1000RR engines, they did not refuse our pleas for new engines and require their dealers, who had ZERO training, to disassemble our motorcycles and rebuild our engines using replacement parts.
But on the COMMISSION Side, Porsche redesigned and put into production new improved engines within an incredibly short time, spared no expense in Air-shipping those engines and training
personnel in their installation, provided loaner cars to affected owners, and arguably reasonable compensation. And Porsche did all that during a stressful period with resources stretched thin with the 918, Macan and new GT Models under design. IMHO, I’d cut them some slack, and still give them an A on the COMMISSION Side.
05-18-2014, 03:45 PM
#23
Intermediate
Given your long relationship with Porsche and Porsche cars, I am dumfounded that you would allow one unprecedented incident to sour your relationship with them. No doubt it has not been handled well but you must realize Porsche has not faced this situation before. They made mistakes but they also have taken many positive steps. Not many car companies would have done what they have done to try to make us whole.
Loyalty is a two sided relationship. Porsche has acknowledged their screw up. At a minimum we need to be faithful to the company during this difficult time for them.
Loyalty is a two sided relationship. Porsche has acknowledged their screw up. At a minimum we need to be faithful to the company during this difficult time for them.
05-18-2014, 03:48 PM
#24
Intermediate
Not that this data changes the basic point you made.
05-18-2014, 03:52 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
I loved the car but I now hate Porsche. The way they dealt with me, and all the GT3 owners, is a disgrace.
This was a particularly heart-breaking decision for me because until a couple of months ago, I was a big fan of the Porsche brand. This GT3 was my fourth Porsche. I have been treasurer, competition director and president of the Golden Gate Region of PCA; I have taught high speed driving to other Porsche owners at every track in California and Nevada (with the exception of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway); I have sent multiple referrals to my local dealer. This was all good fun while it lasted.
The last 90 days however have been a complete nightmare. I can understand technical issues and the reasons for a recall, these things happen. What shocked me though was the complete information blackout culminating with Porsche’s inability or unwillingness to tell me when my car will be repaired.
When they finally did I had lost patience and ordered another car (Jaguar F Type R)
This was a particularly heart-breaking decision for me because until a couple of months ago, I was a big fan of the Porsche brand. This GT3 was my fourth Porsche. I have been treasurer, competition director and president of the Golden Gate Region of PCA; I have taught high speed driving to other Porsche owners at every track in California and Nevada (with the exception of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway); I have sent multiple referrals to my local dealer. This was all good fun while it lasted.
The last 90 days however have been a complete nightmare. I can understand technical issues and the reasons for a recall, these things happen. What shocked me though was the complete information blackout culminating with Porsche’s inability or unwillingness to tell me when my car will be repaired.
When they finally did I had lost patience and ordered another car (Jaguar F Type R)
I find myself in a similar mindset...which is really a shame...
I keep realizing how badly I want my GT3 but how little sense it makes for me to actually take it when its ready in August...
05-18-2014, 04:36 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I have to believe there is more to your situation than delays. If you love the car as you profess and obviously an avid tracker with considerable skill you just don't walk away from a 991GT3. It is one of the great performance/value of this century.
05-18-2014, 05:06 PM
#27
Race Director
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: KC ex pat marooned in NY
Posts: 13,005
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14 Posts
Wow, I feel for you guys. I had one on order early on and passed it to another RLr who apparently had engine troubles.
If its really fixed with compensation, I'd prolly keep the 14.
Hate to be ot, but what changes did they make to the car, engine.
C
If its really fixed with compensation, I'd prolly keep the 14.
Hate to be ot, but what changes did they make to the car, engine.
C
05-18-2014, 05:20 PM
#29
Race Director
We've been told that the only internal change to the engine is to the connecting rod bolts. The car now has a warm up light to indicate when the oil has reached an acceptable temperature. New front wheel arch liners with screens are being retrofitted to protect the radiator outlets from stone damage. There are software upgrades both to the engine and gearbox resulting in, at least, better mid-range torque and even quicker shifts.